ae) —— WAVE. Wisdom Audio Visual Exchange Reprint: 1000 copies Nov 1996 1000 copies Jan 1999 Please note: AM W.A.V.E, reprints are strietly for free distribution, This isto ensure tha the sponsors incention ~ the promulgation of the Dhamma or the Benefit ofa ving beings ~ is achieved withow hindrance. We would like o express our admiration to our sponsors for their generosiry. May the merit of their act help speed them to Nibbana. Printed tor ree detribution a of of DHAMMA Phra Acharn Thate Desaransi MEDITATION IN WORDS ranslated from the Thai by Kingkeo Attagara Wat Hin Mark Pong ongktal, Thailand,Printed for tree detribution (Not forsale, This book has been publ tne dlociples and davotees ofthe Vi Nirodharaisi Gamehira Desaraish. Dedicated fo him with respect, on, the occasion of the celebration of nis 87!" Anniversary on 268" Apel BLE, 2882 (1989) Firs Eaton : 8.6 2521 1,000 copies ‘Second Edition ‘BE. 2532 1,000 coples (areal Kena TateContents Author's Preface Translators Pretace Foreword Part One CONVERSATIONS WITH MONKS, NOVICE, NUN Phra Bunta Pasannacitio from Maha Sarakhem, Thailand 1 Phra Chaichaan Chayadhammo from Udern Thani, Thalland 7 Phra Poowat Nénavadhdato {rom Chotburi, Thailand a Phra Stephen Paiitobhiso ‘rom England 9 Phra Busana Sudhammo ‘rom Indonesia oo Phra James Dhanmacando from USA, 103Phra David Pati dearo from Australia Phra Keith Dhammavizeayo from New Zealand Samanera Vinee Taselo from Australia ‘Mae Shee Chuang from Singapore Part Two CONVERSATIONS WITH LAYMEN Ubasika 1 basa 2 Ubasok 1a 13 19 as 153 169 199 Anthor’s Preface “This book contains conversations between a number of student meditators and myselt. Some of these meditators are Thai and native of several provinces, while others are fom foreign lands. All of them recount thelr own personal exp Dertaning to the practice of meditation. Those experiences are Vatied and indeed reveal the depth and complexity of the human heart. Since | am the supervisor of these mecitatrs, the grester att of the conversation consists of their questions and my answers to them, Most of the mecitators usualy prefer to keep silent Some may wish to communicate, but are not articulate enough due to lack of hetorical ski. Thus, it is dificut for the Imeditator and the theoretician to be complacent with each ether. | have always wished to bring out Book of this nature In order that some of the truly personal experiences of the medi: latore may be known to other people. It Is particularly fortunate that in this Vassa season | have en opportunity to. supervise=e the practice of « number of students both Theis and foreigners. | feel that theie experiences and problems ere interesting. At the same time, the solutions that they have discovered by them. selves or that are suggested by me are found to be useful both in ther practices of meditation ané their daily living. ‘Therefore, | hope that this book will be of some use to readers who wish to lear something about Buddhism or to try some of its methodology to enhance their goodness and freedom from suffering. omvoy ae Desaraisi ‘Translator’s Preface This book was first published in December, 1976. Two ‘months later | was recommended to Phra Acharn Thate Desranisi ‘0 do the translation into Engish. | humbly accepted the honour ‘and found, not to my surprise, that the book wes indeed sifficult {0 translate, The subject is in itself extraordinary, while the ral style of the conversations caries with it @ large number of ‘understatements, laxity, and repetitions. For example, the speakers ‘of the Tha language habitually eave out subjects from the sentence structure. The task is, therefore, left for the translator to make ‘an interpretation. | ty f0 retain the original style as much ss | can for | believe it is the style that makes a man, Yet there are few Dlaces in which | have to do some reshaping. Nevertheless, | amit tam not able to do justice to this piece of work. 1 must, therefore, beg for forgiveness, if readers fad my. translation offensive,For the translation of Pali terms, | have consulted mainly Phra Rajavaramuni (Prayush Y's A Dictimary of Buddhism, Bhidkin Paiidvaddho's translation of Phra Mahé Bomea's Forest Dhomma, and Bhikkha Sumedho's Handbook for the Practioe of Dhamma. May an understanding, or even a misunderstanding, this book be a challenge to the reader to prove some of the points brought out here by those who have with earnest undergone the practice of Ohamma. of K, Attagara March 12, 1978 FOREWORD ele very fortunate that we, who were trom diferent places and homelands, have come together here to practise Dhamma of the Lord Buddha. You have indeed developed ood deeds and many of you have taken to monthood on ‘account of confidence and pure interest in the ie of chastity. ‘You have attended very well to the practice of meditation. ‘Now that the Vassa season Is almost over and we wil all parted sooner or lator. 1 wish that you shere with me end Your friends your pertonal experiences and problems. This 1s so that I may comment upen them. And thus we shall learn from one another.Part One CONVERSATIONS WITH MONKS, NOVICE, NUNPhra Bi Age 88 Vassa Age 9 Native of the province of Maha Sarakham, ‘he sajourned in many places to earn a living. He had just barely enough bnowledge to read and verte Once he met @ monk who practised meditation. After some conversation with the monk, he twas inspired with faith. So he left the life of laity and entered monthood under the supervision of an Upajjhaya named Phra Thep Bundit of Wat Sri Muang, Nong Khai Province. That was at the age of forty-six. He spent one Vasia season with the Upaishdsa. After that he took leave of him and spent the following Vassa seasons under the supervision of Phra Ackarn Thate at Wat Hin Mark Peng in the district of Sri Chiangmai He has attended tothe practice of meditation regularly. Upon some doubts periaining to the ‘practice, he asked Phra Acharn the flowing questions:‘Question 1 Since Ohamma, whether crude or refined, is always present in each individuol, why does one not see it ? Dhamma is difficult to see. It is present not newer 1 este at cay missy tt abs in een. Te & Dhamma the fom (Ripe Unarmed tha en faco (Nama Ohana). The dey i ene bf he fat tt the hero 8 dandy alent (Res). te he Beale ter of hing or withlang Ohana fe Catt examination. Ts ren tht the arti swe re ect nat be the es or aston fan Aner lem tt ons ete poet weer arene tora beds fre and hr. Even tis ay cote t ie nee he 2 tn cuca They the wy, nol te Dharma, = mere Dro caring en ina nt tent.” Ne tl Dhan Secones pasate gesorly ected nee by ont ‘an one se its optimum value "rye metitatin-maater: Pra Retarn Thate 3 Question 2 Some people sey, if there already is Dhamma Within nese, why take the trouble to practise it ? Is is remark correct ? Answer 2 No. AS I have explsined, Ohamma i within us ail ight, but we sre not capable of perceiving it. We may see it only on the surface, acknowledging its form and abstraction through the eyes and imagination. This is the kind of Ohemme that derives itself from the memory of texts end dkctates of rovosts, This is neither sesing with genuineness nor with one ‘wn insight. Therefore, itis necessary that we tain and prepare ‘our heart for holding the Dhamma. As | have explained it there ‘5 no place to hold the Dhamma, the Ohemma cannet sit. Con. sequently, as much as we wish to ponder upon the Chamma, we cannot perceive it clearly. Many times we see it not af itis Dhamma is there allright, but we are incapeble of witnessing it This % why we need to trein our heart in a quiet place or with the help of 9 teacher who knows, so that our heart is capable of holding the Ohamma for consideration, Question Concerning the three principles of giving (Daina), ‘morality (Sila), and mecitation (Bhavand). 1s it possible to Deresive them one in all or all in one, once we have attained wisdom (Paitia) ? Answer 3 The Teacher wishes to stress the importance of ch principle, so he makes the above classification and speaks of then separately. Now, if @ person practising meditation speaks only of the heart, not of the external object, that is, if we speak Of pacification of the heart, then we may pick up the subject4 ‘of meditation and explain the other two principles through it Whether the Ohamma is erude ot refined, it will be perceiveble to a paciied heart External giving or material giving is one type. This is to give away miseriness. However, observance of the moral precepts is for pacitying the physical and the verbal. Meditation is for pacitying the physical and the verbal. Mecitation is for pacitying the heart. If the heart be not st pesce, you may see things with the eyes, but it will not be as distinctly as when you Took at them with @ quiet heart In actying the heart through meditation, we have to learn to give up mental attachments, This is called Caga a0, meaning to give, give away. Besides, in meditating, we lesen to Keep our body and speech at pesce. That is, we do not carry on any disturbance through them. Here Is already realization of the moral precepts. Through meditation, we may say that giving, morality, and meditation re one in all and all ‘Question 4 Theoretically, when we speak of morality (Sila), concentrated absorption (Samadhi) and wisdom (Pata), we but wisdom last. But, those who practise meditation prefer putting wisdom first, Is this correct ? ‘Answer 4 This is similar to what we have just been taking The explanation fs, when we speak to the people at large, we start from the crude to the refined. tis easier for them to Understand. For those who practise, the order is reversed. ‘A heart perfecty at peace can very well see that wisdom is the 5 basis of morality. Wisdom is there to disci inate right feom ‘wrong, good from bad, and what to do from not to do. When Wisdom grows, we then know that we should abstain from doing il, This is how we come to observe the precepts. Hence wisdom comes before morality. The same is true with meditation. When we practise meditation in order to arive at a concentrated absorption in @ sense-object and a one—pointagness of the heart, we must have wisdom, subtlety, ané inteligence. We must tleanse our heat all round. In other werds, we must be mindful of the senses by not letting them wander away in thoughts. We See dangers in such wanderings, so we are likely to give them up. In this way, we attsin peace, Now, let's look at it the other way around, Normally speaking, wisdom is placed last. In this case, wisdom is of the highest degree. It is wisdom for the realization of Truth I we have observed no precepts and attained not onepointedness, Wwissom cannot possibly grow, Wisdom which is the Basis of Insight must be built upon perfect observance of precepts and concentrated absorption especially at the level of Appani-Samidh. ‘Once withdrawing from the full concentration of Appand-Samadhi, Insight wil occur. Hence wisdom is placed last of all, Some Dragmatists, who perceive that wisdom comes before morality and ‘meditation, may regard the other order as mistake, Never. Uheless, those who have attained insight can see the grandiosity fand subtlety of the Teacher's explanation and will be able to Dereeive the Truth of those varied explanations, since they corres. ond to different levels of Dhamma. Wisdom of the highest \ogree is called Paihia Vipastand. I will enable one to release attachments (Upaiddna).6 ‘Question 5 Some say that mindfulness of the hody (Kaiydmusti) is the development of calm (Samatha-Bhivand), whereas mindful ress of the arising and falling is the development of insight Vipaswand-Bhivand. 's correct 7 ‘Answer 5S This (s difficult to say. One has to practise in ‘order to understend it. Samatha means calm. There is not just one way t0 reach it, The Buddha does not make it obligatory ‘that you have to use only such and such a meditation method. You may use any of the methods, whether it be a concentration fon the word “Buddho,” or “ Arahas,” or “Samma Arahasi,”” ‘er a concentration on death. You may also concentrate on your body. All are right, There is no objection to any of them, “The importance is whether or not the heart is capable of arriving ‘at one-pointedness. It it Is capable so, then iti called Samatha [AL of those varied ways may lead to Samatha. Mf the heart ‘cannot yet achieve one-pointedness, it may just be at the state of verbal repetition ( Parikamma-Bhdvand). | have explained that the one—pointedness refers to that state in which the heart is detached from external objects and has come to dwell on one particular object. Ths is the highest possible state of Samarha At this state, the heart is charged with the fullest power. It will act automatically, We cannot direct it. It is capable of auto matically setting itseit at, oF withdrawing itself to an appropriate state (Bhiimi). This takes place in the reaim of Samatha [As for Vipasand, thie meant to comarchend truth 5 it truly ie, 0 that one Is able to dispose of one’s Seif- Attachment (AtténeDitghi). fone is still unable to do 50, one is not yet up to the Vipassand state, One mey probably acaulre delilements of comprehension (Vipasans’-Kilesa. 7 In practising Samatha and Vipassand, W's better not to burden yourtelf with books, or you will become pedantic. Keep them away in a cabinet. Lot us train our heart s0 as to expo- Jim and One Polntedness, Thon if we wish, we may ‘converse with references to books. If we can do this, we can save a lot of saliva Question 6 Most of the beginners in the practice of medita tion usually with to comprehend the highest Dhamma, thinking that they have got enough basis for comprehending it, they do not know and do nat practice Dhamma at the elementary and Intermediate levels, is it posse Answer 6 People today are too anxious. When practising Dhamma, they wish to find the quickest result possible. They Sometimes. do not even know whet the high Dhamma is. Most of them, a | have noticed, thik of the high Dhamma as mira. culous experiences and abilities to “see” this and that. This is the s0-celled “high Dhamma” of people today. Actually Dhamma is discovered not because of cur dese. Whenever we have confidence (Saddhd') and practise elelontly the four principles of mindfulness (Saviparthana), Dhamma will eventually present iteolf, whether it be the erude or the refined, the high oF the ow. All these phases wil dawn upen you automatically, with. fut your desire, As & matter of fact, desire will be quite a hhindrance to the Realization of Dhamma. Be not #0 covetous that you forget the Buddhs'’s teaching when he says: morality at its height of prosperity does further the growth of wisdom. ‘And wisdom at its helght of prosperity does further freedom,‘complete detachment from defilements and sufferings for that matter. The careless ones, who have not acquired 2 taste for ‘morality and mesitation, hearken heartily to the saying that only wisdom brings one to freedom. So they joyfully sit around the tray fof foods that are put in front of them and gauge themselves hurriedly. Ohamma is not the foods nor the rice which someone ‘else sete before you. You have to prepare it with your own heart, True Ohamme must be touched by the heart. if we do not touch all things by the heart, how can we achieve the total, mental comprehension or Paid ? How can we realize What we have managed to get tid of, and what not ? (Question 7 When we contemplate the word ““Buddho,” until wwe become absorbed in the word, is that called “Samadhi” or “