CHRIST NEVER DID SAY THAT HE WAS

COMING SOON
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Summary:
Christ always said his return would be delayed, and that we might need to wait a
very long time before we saw him again. He said this repeatedly, in many
different ways.
Those who think he should come 'soon' at any moment, are misinterpreting the
word for 'unexpectedly and suddenly' (like a thief arriving very late into the
night).
Those who think he is a failed prophet because he did not return within one
'generation' are misinterpreting the word for the 'race' of the chosen people, and
fail to realise that he was quoting Jeremiah the prophet.
Those who think that his return will be at the first resurrection (before the final
resurrection a thousand or so years later) are ignoring many statements that he
will raise us up at the last day, at the last trump, after the defeat of the last
enemy. Until then he is reigning on the throne at the right hand side of God in
heaven, until the first heaven and earth pass away.
There is also a mistranslated Greek idiom 'to rule over the earth', wrongly
rendered literally, to 'rule on the earth', to confuse all those who want to be part
of the first resurrection.
When Christ told his followers to watch for his return, his gist was 'because my
return will be delayed, there will be many false Christs coming in my name, but
you must constantly be wary and keep watch to guard against imposters'.
Making the imminent return of Christ a crucial dogma, is a sign of cultish beliefs.
We all should reconsider the bulk of his words about his return, and not cling to
just a few misunderstood lines.
He said he would come to take vengeance on the False Prophet, and the False
Prophet with signs and wonders has not yet even appeared.

THE BIG DELAY

Christ and the New Testament writers always said there would be a
delay.

Mat 24:48 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord tarrieth;

Mat 25:5 Now while the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

Mat 25:19 Now after a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and
maketh a reckoning with them.
 2Th 2:2-3 to the end that ye be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be
troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by epistle as from us, as that the day
of the Lord is just at hand; 3 let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will
not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the
son of perdition,

Rev 6:10 and they cried with a great voice, saying, How long, O Master, the
holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell
on the earth? 11 And there was given them to each one a white robe; and it
was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little time, until their
fellow-servants also and their brethren, who should be killed even as they
were, should have fulfilled their course.

Rev 7:3 saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we shall
have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.

Rev 10:6 and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created the
heaven and the things that are therein, and the earth and the things that are
therein, and the sea and the things that are therein, that there shall be delay
no longer:
[this implies a delay up to that time]

The longer than expected delay is rightly called compassionate by Peter and Paul:

2Pe 3:3-4 knowing this first, that in the last days mockers shall come with
mockery, walking after their own lusts, 4 and saying, Where is the promise of
his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as
they were from the beginning of the creation.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count
slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should
perish, but that all should come to repentance... 15 And account that the
longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also,
according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you;

The mystery of the gospel was that all the nations would be blessed through
Abraham's seed (Christ). The scope of this extension demands an unforeseen
delay. The unexpected delay is called 'wisdom'.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest
ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel,
until the fulness of the Gentiles [non-Jews] be come in; 26 and so all Israel
shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the
Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:... 32 For God hath
shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all. 33 O the
depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! how
 unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out!

Having to wait for Yahweh is not a new theme:

Psa 25:3 Yea, none that wait for thee shall be put to shame: They shall be put
to shame that deal treacherously without cause.

Psa 27:14 Wait for Jehovah: Be strong, and let thy heart take courage; Yea,
wait thou for Jehovah.

Psa 37:34 Wait for Jehovah, and keep his way, And he will exalt thee to
inherit the land: When the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.

Isa 25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited
for him, and he will save us: this is Jehovah; we have waited for him, we will
be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

PLACES where the Scriptures APPEAR to say that Christ's return

will occur soon

•Look more carefully at...

Heb 10:37 For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not
tarry.

It is quoting...

Habakkuk 2:3 For the vision is yet for the appointed time, and it hasteth
toward the end, and shall not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will
surely come, it will not delay.

'No delay' is a bad translation, obviously, for something which tarries until the
end, which must be waited for. You can see that 'no delay' must mean that there
will be a delay, but no cancellation.
The problem is translational, a mistake of the editors, not of God's.

•Jas 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the
husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over
it, until it receive the early and latter rain. 8 Be ye also patient; establish
your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is at hand.

..Obviously a long wait, and a message to 'be patient', is not expecting a 'soon'-
return!

Again, there are problems in translating the Greek, because there is not a
straightforward one-to-one correspondence with English words.
'Coming' is synonymous with 'the presence of' — a quite different idea in English,
with no movement or timing at all!
'At hand' is a constant problem for translators... 'the kingdom of God is at hand'
'the day of the Lord is at hand' Php_4:5. The phrase is used to mean 'just out of
reach; not here yet'. I think the idea might be 'what we are all looking forward to,
and waiting patiently for'.

The phrase 'at hand' can mean both near and far, because of repeated fulfilment
of prophecy.

•What did Jesus mean by telling his disciples (who would die before he returned)
to watch?

Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know not the day nor the hour.

But firstly, the 70AD destruction of Jerusalem, which the disciples would have
witnessed, was just over the horizon.
And Secondly, his teaching was clearly to beware of all false claims by false
prophets to be the Christ, or that the Christ has already returned. He was not
saying 'Watch for my return' but 'Watch out until I return, that no-one mislead
you'. That command rightly started as soon as he left, and continues unabated.
And thirdly many similar things which he said to the disciples are obviously
prophetic of the End Times — He even wrote especially to tell us so...

Rev 3:2-3 Be thou watchful, and establish the things that remain, which were
ready to die: for I have found no works of thine perfected before my God. 3
Remember therefore how thou hast received and didst hear; and keep it, and
repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come as a thief, and thou shalt
not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev 16:15 (Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth
his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.)

Luk 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall
find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them
sit down to meat, and shall come and serve them.

Implicit in the 'door-keeper/ watchman' imagery used, is the idea that the
doorkeeper only opens to the true master of the house, not to imposters. There
are several stories of false followers seeking to have the door opened to them, and
being refused. The image is more about the waiting and watching carefully than
the final return.

It just underlines the need to be careful in interpreting the face value of scripture.

•The Old Testament can explain this puzzling imagery about 'watching':
 Neh 4:23 So neither I, nor my brethren, nor my servants, nor the men of the
guard that followed me, none of us put off our clothes, every one went with
his weapon to the water.
Neh 4:17 They all builded the wall and they that bare burdens laded
themselves; every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with
the other held his weapon;

Sometimes the vocabulary can be explained by the imagery used — that of

the Watchman and Warner. As such it may refer to a select few prophets.

Hab 2:1 I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will look
forth to see what he will speak with me, and what I shall answer concerning
my complaint.

Putting together these images shows us that he might be also talking of a

Passover night vigil -- another window into unexpected and unfamiliar
interpretations.

SITUATIONS telling us of CHRIST'S SWIFT, SUDDEN and

UNEXPECTED RETURN
(This is easily mistranslated as 'soon')

•Christ comes like a thief:

Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what
watch the thief was coming, he would have watched, and would not have
suffered his house to be broken through. Luk_12:39-40

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the
heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be
dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall
be burned up.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also
that are fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring [take as plunder] with him...17
then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught
[plundered] up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever
be with the Lord.

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a
thief in the night... 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day
should overtake you as a thief:

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and didst hear; and
keep it, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come as a thief,
and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
 Rev 16:15 (Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth
his garments, lest he walked naked, and they see his shame.)

•Christ comes as suddenly as pains upon a woman in childbirth:

1Th 5:3 When they are saying, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction
cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall in no
wise escape.

•Christ comes as suddenly as lightning crosses from horizon to horizon:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even
unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

•Christ comes like the sudden destruction upon Sodom and Gomorrah, and the
suddenness of the flood:

Mat 24:37-39 And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the
Son of man. 38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were
eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah
entered into the ark, 39 and they knew not until the flood came, and took
them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

Luk 17:28-30 Likewise even as it came to pass in the days of Lot; they ate,
they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 but in the
day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven,
and destroyed them all: 30 after the same manner shall it be in the day that
the Son of man is revealed.

•There will not even be time to collect anything:

Mat 24:16-18 then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains: 17 let
him that is on the housetop not go down to take out things that are in his
house: 18 and let him that is in the field not return back to take his cloak.

•The final destruction of Babylon takes 'one hour':

Rev 18:10 standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Woe, woe, the
great city, Babylon, the strong city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

COMING 'SOON'

The following is an example of a misleading translation...

 WEB Rev 22:6 He said to me, “These words are faithful and true. The Lord
God of the spirits of the prophets sent his angel to show to his bondservants
the things which must happen soon.”

The Greek meaning is not 'soon'. The Greek 'tachos' means 'quickly,
suddenly':

"tachos
a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722 prefixed) in haste: - + quickly, +
shortly, + speedily."

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his
servants, even the things which must shortly [suddenly] come to pass: and he
sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;

If your version translates 'coming soon' as 'to happen soon', it is in error. It is not
a simple matter of alternatives and synonyms, but of word usage in context
defining the intended meaning...

This message ('You can't guess the timing') is reiterated many times not just in
words but also in situations and parables.

'Quickly, speedily, suddenly, unexpected' does not imply 'soon'

Mat 24:50 the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he expecteth not,
and in an hour when he knoweth not,

Mar 13:36 lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

Luk 18:8 I say unto you, that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless,
when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Luk 21:34 But take heed to yourselves, lest haply your hearts be overcharged
with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day come on
you suddenly as a snare:

1Th 5:3 When they are saying, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction
cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall in no
wise escape.

Rev 2:16 Repent therefore; or else I come to thee quickly, and I will make war
against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 3:11 I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy
crown.

Rev 22:7 And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of
 the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:12 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to
each man according as his work is.

Rev 22:20 He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen:
come, Lord Jesus.

Vengeance on 'Babylon' happens 'suddenly' 'in one hour/day'

Isa 47:1 Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon; sit on
the ground without a throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no
more be called tender and delicate. 9 but these two things shall come to thee
in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood; in their full
measure shall they come upon thee, in the multitude of thy sorceries, and the
great abundance of thine enchantments... 11 Therefore shall evil come upon
thee; thou shalt not know the dawning thereof: and mischief shall fall upon
thee; thou shalt not be able to put it away: and desolation shall come upon
thee suddenly, which thou knowest not.

Jer 51:8 Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: wail for her; take balm for
her pain, if so be she may be healed.

Rev 18:8 Therefore in one day shall her plagues come, death, and mourning,
and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire; for strong is the Lord
God who judged her... 10 standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying,
Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! for in one hour is thy
judgment come.

70 years were to pass from the time when Isaiah prophesied until the sudden
destruction of Babylon; and according to Revelation its complete fulfilment is still
waiting!

CHRIST is NOT a FAILED PROPHET

Many people think that Christ was well-intentioned but that he didn't really know
everything. They argue like this:

CASE NUMBER 1

'Christ said he would come in his glory and he didn't'...

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here (i.e.
Peter, James and John — read on), who shall in no wise taste of death, till
they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
..from which many people conclude:

'Those people who heard that, died, before Christ returned. Therefore what
Christ said was incorrect.
He claimed something he couldn't fulfill...
or didn't know what he was talking about, or...'

BUT... It did happen... read on to the next verse and hear what happened to
Peter, James and John on the Mount of Transfiguration. All three synoptic
gospels follow this prediction, immediately, with its immediate fulfilment...

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John
his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart: 2 and he was
transfigured before them; and his face did shine as the sun, and his garments
became white as the light... 5 While he was yet speaking, behold, a bright
cloud overshadowed them: and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is
my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

John later wrote that he had seen His glory:

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his
glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

And Peter too said that he had witnessed 'Christ's coming':

2Pe 1:16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made
known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were
eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honor
and glory, when there was borne such a voice to him by the Majestic Glory,
This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: 18 and this voice we
ourselves heard borne out of heaven, when we were with him in the holy
mount.

The Greek word for 'coming' is equally a 'presence' or 'coming near', so English
speakers get misled by its unfamiliar meaning.

CASE NUMBER 2

Many people argue that Christ said 'This generation won't pass away'... but it did.
So they conclude that Christ is a failed prophet.

BUT... Christ was talking of the race, of Israel, not a single 'generation'.

The primary meaning in the Greek, of 'genos', is 'race' (cf in English 'genocide;
genetic; Genesis; generate').

Luk 21:23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in
 those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this
people.
Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation [race of Jews] shall not pass
away, till all things be accomplished.

Mat 17:17 And Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation,
how long shall I be with you? how long shall I bear with you? bring him hither
to me.

..The idea is of a well-established breed of rebels, Mat_3:7, not a single time-slot.

Jesus was talking of the race of religious Jews who continued to kill the prophets

Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye build the
sepulchres of the prophets, and garnish the tombs of the righteous, 30 and
say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we should not have been
partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye witness to
yourselves, that ye are sons of them that slew the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then
the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye offspring [brood] of vipers,
how shall ye escape the judgment of hell? 34 Therefore, behold, I send unto
you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and
crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute
from city to city: 35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on
the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah
son of Barachiah, whom ye [=your fathers] slew between the sanctuary and
the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this
generation.

..The context is confined to rebels, especially the religious leaders of Israel, killing
the prophets over many generations, and the rebellious nation or 'race' of Israel
receiving the just punishment. The intention is proper justice. To imagine that all
other murders will be blamed on a single generation smacks of injustice... God
takes pains to tell us he is just in judgment.

Christ is quoting Jeremiah's prophecy, which definitely refers to a handful

of synonyms for 'race: family/ nation/ people/ offspring/ seed, not a single
generation, and talks of heaven and earth passing away:

Jer 31:35-37 Thus saith Jehovah, who giveth the sun for a light by day, and
the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirreth
up the sea, so that the waves thereof roar; Jehovah of hosts is his name: 36 If
these ordinances depart from before me, saith Jehovah, then the seed of Israel
also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37 Thus saith
Jehovah: If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth
searched out beneath, then will I also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that
they have done, saith Jehovah.

Jer 33:24-26 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The
 two families which Jehovah did choose, he hath cast them off? thus do they
despise my people, that they should be no more a nation before them. 25
Thus saith Jehovah: If my covenant of day and night stand not, if I have not
appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; 26 then will I also cast away
the seed of Jacob, and of David my servant, so that I will not take of his seed
to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their
captivity to return, and will have mercy on them.

Compare that with what Jesus said...

Mat 24:34-35 Verily I say unto you, This generation [i.e. nation] shall not
pass away, till all these things be accomplished. 35 Heaven and earth shall
pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the
earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the
billows;

This is an affirmation that Israel will survive the distress of the last days, as is
also prophesied in other places. A 'generation' may 'pass away', but a 'race'
continues much longer. Israel is set to survive until the very end times, and Jesus
was reiterating that prophecy -- which therefore supports the
interpretation opposite to 'coming soon'.

A major influence on interpreting what Christ said, comes from the Islamic
Koran, and other apocryphal scripture which preceded it. For instance 'Enoch'
predicted the end within a few more specified generations, long since past. The
Koran pushes the 'soon-coming' end of the world, in unambiguous terms: 'The
end is nigh'. It is easy to see that Allah did not fulfil his time of vengeance, as
Muhammad said he would, but it is not so easy to see that our translations follow
the Arabic Koran and people's preconceptions, rather than the Greek dictionary,
and Biblical contextual word-usage.

JESUS WON'T RETURN till after the PERSECUTION by the END-

TIMES FALSE PROPHET

Jesus will return in order to avenge himself on the False Prophet

The purpose of Christ's return is to free his people from the grip of the False
Prophet, and to punish the False Prophet and his followers. Jesus' return cannot
'just around the corner', because there is as yet no False Prophet doing signs to
lead people into war. The following scriptures show that many of the Believers
actually appear to be dead, i.e. killed by the Beast and the False Prophet
(described in Rev_13:7, Rev_13:15). I.e. There must be a huge persecution first
before Christ returns.
 Mat 24:22 And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have
been saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened... 24 For
there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs
and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect... 30 and then
shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes
of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of
heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send forth his angels with
a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the
four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Luk 18:7-8 And shall not God avenge his elect, that cry to him day and night,
and yet he is longsuffering over them? 8 I say unto you, that he will avenge
them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith
on the earth?

1Th 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout,
with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in
Christ shall rise first; 17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together
with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall
we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 5:3 When they are saying, Peace and safety [the words of a false
prophet Jer_8:10-11, Eze_13:9-10, Eze_13:16], then sudden destruction
cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall in no
wise escape.

2Th 2:8-12 And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord
Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nought by the
manifestation of his coming; 9 even he, whose coming is according to the
working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 and with
all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish; because they received not
the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God
sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie: 12 that they
all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in
unrighteousness.

Rev 16:13-15 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the
mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean
spirits, as it were frogs: 14 for they are spirits of demons, working signs;
which go forth unto the kings of the whole world, to gather them together
unto the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. 15 (Behold, I come as a
thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walked
naked, and they see his shame.)

Those in the First Resurrection do not 'Reign on the Earth', but Rule
with Christ in Heaven.
This is the verse which gives us the misleading impression:

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall
reign on the earth.

'On/Upon' is a serious mistranslation here. This is the sole supporting verse for
the idea that the millennium rule occurs 'on earth', that Christ returns to earth to
'reign with' the saints before the final return. It obscures our thinking so that we
cannot read the otherwise clear picture of Christ and the saints reigning with
Christ from heaven 'over the earth'.

The Greek word 'epi' has many translations, with the key one being 'upon', or
more loosely, 'on'. Often it not surprisingly means 'over', but in abstract phrases it
loses its physical spatial idea in favour of 'superiority to'. Therefore, to 'reign on
the earth' is better rendered 'to reign over the earth' with no implied contact with
earth.
In Greek, you 'Rule upon Jerusalem', 'reign upon your subjects' 'have authority
upon your enemies' 'have power upon someone'. It has a sensible resonance with
being 'seated upon' a throne (of judgment, etc). Thus when the woman 'sits upon
the beast', it is made parallel in thought to her 'ruling upon (over) the kings'.
There are several such extended usages of 'epi' to mean 'over', in Greek and
Hebrew, like to 'mourn upon a city's ruin', 'get honour upon your opponents',
'glory upon' your achievements, 'look upon' a defeated foe (triumph over), 'rise up
upon an enemy (overcome)'.

Ruling with Christ in Heaven

Christ Jesus will be 'in heaven' until the full restoration...

Act 3:21 whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all
things, whereof God spake by the mouth of His holy prophets that have been
from of old.

The joy that occurs when the devil is expelled from heaven is for those in heaven.
The kingdom and authority of Christ is therefore in heaven, not upon earth, at
this early stage:

Rev 12:10-12 And I heard a great voice in heaven, saying, Now is come the
salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of
his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accuseth them
before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him because of the blood
of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony; and they loved not
their life even unto death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell
in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down
unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time.
This 'Woe' corresponds with either the First Woe (the Fifth Trumpet) or all 3
'Woes'; and the 'short time', in Revelation, is after the Millennium when Satan is
released from the Abyss. The royal authority which is accompanied by rejoicing in
heaven, corresponds to when the Devil is 'down'.

It simply makes no sense to mourn on earth because his saints are reigning (!)
'on earth'. The verse does not say that the saints are even reigning with Christ, i.e.
resurrected (to heaven or on earth), but it does preclude the kingdom and
authority of Christ on earth, until he returns to earth to wrest back his rightful
inheritance.

Here are the 144,ooo and the first resurrection, singing in heaven:

Rev 14:1-3 And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and
with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the
name of his Father, written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from
heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and
the voice which I heard was as the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 and they sing as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four
living creatures and the elders: and no man could learn the song save the
hundred and forty and four thousand, even they that had been purchased out
of the earth.

Rev 15:1-2 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven
angels having seven plagues, which are the last, for in them is finished the
wrath of God. 2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and
them that come off victorious from the beast, and from his image, and from
the number of his name, standing by the sea of glass, having harps of God.

Here is an Old Testament reference to the reign of Christ from heaven over the
earth:

Psa 110:1 Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make
thine enemies thy footstool.

Here is one of the many New Testament references to the same thing:

Act 7:56 and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man
standing on the right hand of God.

Act_1:6-7 tells us that the kingdom of God on Earth is not simply the coming of
the Holy Spirit.

Act 1:6-8 They therefore, when they were come together, asked him, saying,
Lord, dost thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto
them, It is not for you to know times or seasons, which the Father hath set
within His own authority. 8 But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit
 is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all
Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Those who reign in the millennium have been killed by the beast. Here they are
seen to be ascending into heaven:

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that
cometh up out of the abyss shall make war with them, and overcome them,
and kill them... 11 And after the three days and a half the breath of life from
God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell
upon them that beheld them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven
saying unto them, Come up hither. And they went up into heaven in the cloud;
and their enemies beheld them.

'Going up into heaven in the cloud' is parallel with 1Th_4:16-17 quoted above --
'trump of God' 'caught up in the clouds'.

Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit [=reign] with him in
the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus:

Expecting the sudden but imminent return of Christ is very much

associated with cult doctrine

For them the return is not so much unexpected as 'prophesied', and they may
even put a date on it. Sound doctrine would probably say 'Expect to die in Christ'
rather than 'Expect to be alive when Christ returns'. That is, after all, what has
already happened to the many millions of believers who have all read the same
scriptures about Christ's return.

And for instance, how can the thousand year reign on earth precede the 'final'
coming of Christ? Even if you have an opinion on that, how can Christ return
until the Man of Lawlessness is revealed?

2Th 2:1-6 Now we beseech you, brethren, touching the coming of our Lord
Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him; 2 to the end that ye be
not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by
word, or by epistle as from us, as that the day of the Lord is just at hand; 3 let
no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away
come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, 4 he that
opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is
worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, setting himself forth as
God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these
things? 6 And now ye know that which restraineth, to the end that he may be
revealed in his own season.

Luk 18:8 I say unto you, that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless,
 when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Has the rule of the Beast (even started, or) wiped out any resistance from the
saints? Have the plagues of Revelation happened yet? E.g. a third of the
freshwaters turning bitter? It simply doesn't match reality, that Christ could
return any time, as if everything else had been already fulfilled. Yahweh's
prophecies do have a habit of making sense, not nonsense.

Since Satan isn't overcome until after the millennium is over, it seems his final
return is at least a thousand years away.

Rev 20:2-3 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil
and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the
abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations
no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be
loosed for a little time.

Has history arrived at this point yet?...

Dan 12:6-7 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the
waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7 And I
heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when
he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him
that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when they
have made an end of breaking in pieces the power of the holy people, all these
things shall be finished.
Rev 10:5-6 And the angel that I saw standing upon the sea and upon the earth
lifted up his right hand to heaven, 6 and sware by him that liveth for ever and
ever, who created the heaven and the things that are therein, and the earth
and the things that are therein, and the sea and the things that are therein,
that there shall be delay no longer:

Since the last trumpet is a very noisy affair, as witnessed in many places in the
Bible 2Pe_3:10, Rev_16:17-18, Heb_12:26, we would have to explain why no-one
has heard the previous six trumpets Rev_8:2+Rev_8:5. The obvious explanation
is that they have not yet begun.

Jesus was explicit about Christian resurrection:

Joh 6:39-40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he
hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and
believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last
day.

Job was explicit about the final resurrection:

 Job 14:12 So man lieth down and riseth not: Till the heavens be no more, they
shall not awake, Nor be roused out of their sleep.

It is probably the widespread cultish desire to be part of the first

resurrection, a thousand years earlier, that makes people wish that '144,00o
Israelites' actually means 'huge numbers of Gentile Christians', in some sort of
figurative double-talk. The other way to be part of the first resurrection is to
consider that 'those martyrs beheaded in their victory over the Beast' must refer
to billions of Christian pew-sitters in past and present ages. Either way this view
demands that Christ's return is (somewhere between the 4th and 5th trump --)
just before the millennium (and that the Beast's reign is figurative and ever-
present).

If we accept that our Christian resurrection is as advertised, at the last trump,

and that we mostly are not part of the greatly blessed chosen elite raised earlier,
then we can more and more happily give up on pre-millennialism, imminent
adventism, mystical interpretation, confusion and self-elevation.

CONCLUSION

The Bible teaches that Christ said he would be a long time before he returned,
suddenly. Not understanding this has led to some wild claims about Christ being
a failed prophet, and to outsiders rightly suspecting something wrong about how
Christians preach the end of the world, and how they believe in some sort of
mystical reality. The church should make every effort to distance itself from
unreasonableness, mysticism, confusion and unreality. It needlessly brings the
veracity of the Bible into question. The Christian faith is the most reasonable
thing on the planet. But ill-founded distortions of the message discredit its
reasonableness in the eyes of others. Having a faith does not give us licence to
believe every strange thing we can imagine.

If Christ 'fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies, as a good start, but failed the
crucial test of getting it right thereafter' (a not very coherent theory), then there
remain no credible prophecies of the end of the world, we lose all hope, and the
way is laid open for a false religion to fill in the gap.

But reading the Bible properly shows us that Christ is doing exactly
what he said he would.