Out of Control

Shortly after the anniversary of he 9/11 attack, a writer had submitted an article
calling for the nation to come together in the same spirit as had motivated us
immediately following the actual attack, in 2001.

Apparently totally unable to focus on that content, a number of individuals

reverted once again to try to prove that attack was a U,S. Government
conspiracy. This is the dialog between myself and a number of the advocates of
this theory, taken directly from the comments appearing at that time. The term
“Author,” is, at all times, referring to my comments or responses.

WRITER 1: I Moves from article content to advocating 911

Conspiracy
Burdening America
The only thing about 9-11 that burdens America is the continued lack of a real
investigation.
This idea that 9-11 was somehow exploited by the Bush administration for the
excuse it needed for these asinine [UNNECESSARY EMOTIONAL TERM] wars
is a lame attempt at trying to understand this seminal event without doing any
empirical investigation of the mountain of 9-11 Truth evidence that screams for a
real investigation.
AUTHOR: Response to WRITER1
Reply: Tiresome
Until you and others having similar theories can present evidence and identify
two or more individuals (as required to be defined as a conspiracy) that can be
submitted to a Federal Grand Jury for prosecution, your speculation about the
cause(s) of 9/11, have about the same value and importance to me, as dog
drool.
WRITER 2 replies to AUTHOR’s comment
Reply: Here's one of a thousand facts you could find, if you looked even half as
much as many of us have. I wrote the following letter to the Deseret News on the
date shown; Orrin Hatch claimed to have evidence we didn't have, to have
sources--which means other people--regarding WMDs that were shown not to
exist.
(1) Should he not be held before a grand jury just for treason, and let the facts of
his conspiracy reveal themselves? This (2) psychopath has never repented,
never confessed, never shown us jack, and yet continues to thrive with the other
psychos in our capitol:
(1) Seems a little difficult to apply a charge of treason to Hatch, given this
definition!

TITLE 18 , PART I , CHAPTER 115, § 2381: Treason

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or
adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United
States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be
imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less
than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United
States.

(2) Completely uncalled-for personal attack

WRITER 2 (Continued)

Editorial, Deseret News April 30, 2003

Sen. Orrin Hatch informed us not long ago that there is "No question there is a
tie (by Iraq) to al-Qaida," and he argued that Iraq had weapons of mass
destruction.
Hatch now has an opportune moment to reveal what led him to make these
claims. The evidence could not be revealed, last I heard, because it would
"endanger the sources" (presumably in the Iraqi government). Given that no one
would now be endangered, the time is ripe for spelling out the facts that led to
the killing of thousands of innocent people, the consumption of perhaps a
hundred billion tax dollars, the untold destruction of property and our occupation
of this oil-rich country.
Such a revelation, or lack of it, goes to the heart of the (3) credibility and
morality of Hatch and other supporters of the Iraq war.
(4) BTW, Gordon Hinkley, then President of the Mormon Church that Hatch
belongs to, also supported the war.

(3) Emotional terms continue

(4) Irrelevant personal attack on Hatch
WRITER 3 RESPONDS TO AUTHOR’S “TIRESOME,” COMMENT
WITH AN AD HOMINEM ATTACK
Reply: You appear old enough to know better, Sir
It is a shame you don't, and even more of a shame you cannot find the flaming
tree that started the forest fire...seeing that you are an author with 16 articles
under your belt. I assume you can research and use common sense. But, it is
only a theory -- until more than a few individuals will vouch for you. I am not
denigrating you here, you are doing a fine job of it.

I always find myself both astonished and dismayed when individuals who
ought to know better, are driven by emotion to engage in insulting and
infantile attacks upon those was simply communicating their views
regarding issues of mutual concern.

AUTHOR’S RESPONSE TO WRITER 3’S ATTACK

Reply: You might find it helpful if ....

... you would learn one of the first rules for effective debate!
Try attacking the argument, NOT the individual making it.
You would be surprised. It does wonders for your credibility.

WRITER 3 apologizes – sort of

Reply: Actually, Mr. Steffin, you are making a very valid point.
I will apologize for my snide comment. I'm not concerned with "my" credibility, so
that point is moot. I also don't want to debate this subject with you or anyone else
this weekend. I haven't the time nor inclination. An individual has either done the
research and saw [SIC] the light, or they continue to wander in darkness.
My response was an emotional reaction to your remarkable demand for more
"proof", and your impertinence in the face of rational conclusions. [It is s]imilar to
doing a lengthy body of research, and having someone toss it off as a bunch of
malarkey with a wave and a sneer.
I don't think more "proof" is needed to establish the government's "story" as...a
"story". A flipping REAL investigation without the whitewash would do just fine.
But, we aren't going to get that from this bunch now, are we?

After “apology,” Writer 3 continues to insult AUTHOR, as shown in

highlighted content.
WRITER 4 Responds to Author’s comment

Reply: Re: Tiresome

You want evidence. Good. Please go to the following web sites:

I never asked for evidence!

http://journalof911studies.com/
http://www.ae911truth.org/
The journal of 911 Studies has links to many scientific papers regarding issues
related to 911. You might start with "Controlled Demolition at the WTC: a
Historical Examination of the Case--Frank Legge (PhD Chem)"
The other link takes you to the web site of Architects and Engineers for 9/11
Truth. This organization has circulated a petition for a new investigation of 9/11,
signed by over 1,200 licensed architects and engineers (including many civil
engineers with experience in building skyscrapers). Their site also includes many
links to related scientific articles about 9/11.
There is plenty of evidence out there--you just have to be willing to look for it.

Astonishing that this new writer has no greater understanding of my

original content than does WRITER 3. He fails to understand that the
content he presents has no relevance for me. It also fails to lead to the path
(Perpetrators) for which I am looking

AUTHOR Reply: Not my point

You did not bother to either read or understand my point. I said the whole
question is IRRELEVANT to anything, since no perpetrator has ever been
named, and no action to convict has been or is planned to be taken.

Once again, I tried to clarify my position; once again as will be noted from
the following, he stubbornly persists in continuing to somehow link his
previous claims (Explosives in the towers) to my repeatedly stated
disinterest.

WRITER 4: I have great difficulty figuring out where he is going

with this.

Reply: Re: Not my point

In order to name a perpetrator and act to convict, the government (not anyone
else) has to first conduct a proper criminal investigation into 9/11 to determine
the actors and the charges against them. This has never been done. Instead,
from the very first day (literally), we were told that Osama bin Laden and a bunch
of Arab accomplices were responsible, period.
All subsequent investigation has been dedicated to proving this particular
allegation, to the exclusion of any alternative theories. In short, there has never
been a proper investigation of the crime. (1) So it is not surprising that no
perpetrator has been named, nor has there been any action to convict. Indeed,
no one has been held responsible for failures of any sort regarding 9/11. (2) This
in itself is remarkable, and grounds for suspicion of a cover-up.
As for consideration of this question being irrelevant to anything, there is no
question that 9/11 was an enormous crime that killed thousands of people, and
that it has had a bad effect on the values and actions of our society. The
question of who is ultimately responsible for perpetrating the 9/11 attacks is
therefore not only relevant, but urgent, if the current downward spiral of our
society is to be arrested. That the government cannot be moved to properly
investigate and prosecute the matter--possibly because of culpability of some of
its members--is certainly a problem, but does not make the matter any less
urgent--quite the contrary.

Perhaps that is that is because no one in DOJ believes there is a

perpetrator to be identified; (2) The 9/11 Commission found no one within
the United States Government to hold responsible. Writer of course fails rto
consider the possibility that there are no conspirators to be named!

WRITER 4: Like the “Energizer Bunny,” he keeps on going,

attempting to prove his point
Reply: Re: Proven Lie?
I refer you to the following link:
click here
Explosives Found in World Trade Center Dust
Scientists Discover Both Residues And Unignited Fragments Of Nano-
Engineered Thermitic Pyrotechnics In Debris From the Twin Towers
This article, by Jim Hoffman, also has a link to the original scientific paper
showing that explosive residues have been discovered in dust samples from the
WTC collapses. I encourage you to read the original paper as well--it's not too
long, only took me a couple of hours to read. (1) If you want proof that the WTC
towers were brought down by explosive demolition, there it is.

(1) I don’t care whether there is proof! Even if there is, no cosnprators
are identified/

WRITER 5: Unconnected, but because he makes so many

errors, he is included here

Reply: Investigative Journalism

"If you have any doubt that 9/11 was an inside job, look back. There is no doubt
explosives were used to bring down all three towers."
Any moron with an IQ slightly above that of mud, who has the time and incentive
to study these collapses, think about the evidence critically, and come to
informed conclusions, can see beyond any reasonable doubt that the buildings
came down due to explosives. http://www.AE911Truth.org
Unfortunately, we still have journalists who choose to write about 9-11, but who
can't fathom the above statement. They have no idea what real investigative
journalism is about, and instead write fluff pieces based on their personnal [SIC]
world views and belief systems.
Where are the modern day Woodwards [SIC] and Bersteins? [SIC] Those were
real investigative journalists who weren't afraid of the truth, and who weren't in a
state of denial. Those were the type of people who actually made a difference
towards ending that other immoral war 40 years ago known as Vietnam. Today
we have cowardly gate keepers who write for what is supposed to pass for the
alternative media, but in actuality, spin what they glean from the mainstream
media, give it a label like "progressivism", and think it's helping to initiate long
over due change and reform.
9-11 Truth is just that - the TRUTH, which can not be politicized, and doesn't
know the difference betwen [SIC] right and left; conservative and liberal.
Aside from lots of spelling errors, just more of the same

AUTHOR: I had hoped I was finished with this nonsense, but…

Last time I talk about "Conspiracy!"

I was hopeful I had written my final thoughts regarding those who find it of
importance to theorize about the events of 9/11, but unfortunately those who
have responded to my comment, either failed to discuss the point which I had
made, or found it appropriate to personally attack me for failing to agree with
their point of view.
Those with any attitude regarding the possibility of a conspiracy occurring on
9/11 can be divided into three categories. The first consists of those who are
completely convinced that members of the United States government were
complicit in arranging or allowing the destruction of the World Trade Center
buildings, the attack on the Pentagon, and the Pennsylvania crash of United
flight 19.
A second group disagrees with the first group.
A third group, probably much larger, either has no idea that a conspiracy theory
is being discussed, or if hey are aware of the theory, have absolutely no interest,
one way or the other.
In my previous comments, I took no position regarding the possibility of a
conspiracy. I simply pointed out that. from my perspective. the arguments of both
the first and second group were completely and totally irrelevant. This is because
no one in a position of authority has indicated an interest in, nor taken any action
to name any individual (s), undertake any prosecution, convene a grand jury, or
otherwise take any legal action related to the 9/11 attack. Thus, it makes no
difference whether those who believe the 9/11 attack involved action by the U.S.
government are correct or not. Even if they are, no one is going to do anything
about it.
So please, stop wasting bandwidth with never-ending claims about something
where nothing is going to happen.

WRITER 4 Reply: Re: Last time

Mr. Steffin, if you wish to ignore the question of who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks
because, in your opinion, no one will do anything about it, that is your right.
I disagree with your position because of the profound effect that event has had
on our society--mostly for the worse. I do not like injustice and think fighting
against injustice and lies is worthwhile. I wonder what sort of country we would
be living in if the founders (John Adams, Jefferson, Washington, et al), had
simply taken the position that no one was going to do anything about the
oppression of the British Crown upon the colonies? [44 WORD SENTENCE]
Sure, the King does all sorts of bad things, but no one is going to do anything
about it. It's irrelevant, right?

WIRITER 3: Continues with his attack

Well, Mr. Steffin you might as well proffer the Obama Quote
Paraphrasing, "Let's just look ahead, move forward". But Sir, there are over 1
million Iraqi's DEAD because of America's invasion. Retaliation for "what?".
Bush, Jr. even said Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. There's 4 million people
displaced in Iraqi (gotta be a massively conservative number here), the culture is
crushed, the infrastructure disembowled, [SIC] the 100's [SIC] of tons of
Depleted Uranium (DU) shells have irradiated the entire country, and massively
increased cases of outlandish cancers are just now being recognized and
coming to light -- can any U.S. citizen. [SIC] Look Ahead [SIC] with complete
disdain and memory loss concerning the responsibility resting on the U.S. for the
damage inflicted on just this one country? How is that possible, Sir?
Can you not feel the pain? Recognize the direct collateral damage
leveraged by 9/11 and misdirected upon a nation uninvolved?
Now we're in Afghanistan. Drone bombing in Pakistan. The MIC and cronies and
contractors are cleaning up what with resupplying all the munitions expended.
The U.S. taxpayers are on the hook for a Trillion + Iraqi occupation. Bankers and
corporate CEOs have raped the citizens of the U.S. and gotten rich. Notice that
middle America is gutted and heading down to 3rd world status. No Sir -- many
cannot look ahead. They are still climbing over the bombed out wreckage strewn
around them. And more collateral damage is occurring hourly.
You must be living in another dimension. You've conveniently for you, lumped
monstrously large and impactful events into tidy little packages, then tossed
them into the trash compactor. It is amazing to behold your contempt
for the reality that has happened on the ground and TO
millions of people...innocents many of them, caught up in dimension of
reality that has [SIC] chewed them and their world up into charred bits.
There is no moving on without justice and accountability. The fact that the Truth
of It All must be dug out of the ground like a relic of a lost time does not diminish
the import to humanity. We need empathy and caring now more
than ever, not callous disregard.

Now, he is apparently moved from advancing a conspiracy theory to

attacking me not for my disregard of the conspiracy theory, but for my lack
of empathy and concern for all those who have been victims of the
government and corporate America.

AUTHOR: … At long last!

Reply: Sorry, not who you would like me to be.

I must admit to being puzzled. Your previous comments have been directed at
my lack of investment or even a modicum of attention directed at allegations of a
conspiracy which explained the 9/11 attack.
I have consistently responded with a complete lack of interest in such theories,
having concluded that regardless of their potential validity, no action is going to
result by disseminating or advocating these theories.
In your current comment you have chosen to take a sudden leap from
addressing your inferences about my lack of concern or attention directed at the
above subject, and instead, apparently have become fascinated by your
conclusions regarding what you have determined to be my apparent lack of
upset with American war-making policy.
Like the proverbial monkeys on the keyboard, the randomness which exists in
the universe has made it possible for you to come up with a correct conclusion.
Because I live in a "world of the real," I do not invest emotion in circumstances
upon which I can have no effect. Thus, I can do nothing about the past
consequences of our wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. Nor, can I do anything to affect
future actions which this country will take.
In your final sentence you say, "We need empathy and caring now more than
ever, not callous disregard." Apparently your discomfort with me originates with
my failure to engage in slobbering displays of emotion directed at what you have
identified as critical problems in the world today. If that is the case, since I am
unlikely to change the person that I am, I suggest it would be most productive for
you to direct your conversations to others, who may be more attentive to your
priorities.
I close by pointing out how WRITER 3 has moved from his original attack,
based on my disregard for the relevance of conspiracy theory, to my lack
of empathy and compassion for the victims of all kinds of problems which
beset the world.