THE HON GREG COMBET AM MP Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency

TRANSCRIPT
GC 191/11 TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH NEIL MITCHELL - 3AW SUBJECT: CARBON PRICING POLICY E & O E PROOF ONLY 8:45 AM MITCHELL: The one thing we do know is that the Greens have won a little battle to have the Productivity Commission look at the petrol excise. Because they want it and they say this, theyre quite open about it they dont live in the real world, they want you to suffer for driving more. They want to reduce your willingness to drive anywhere by putting up prices. But they won that little battle with the Government it would seem. But have a listen to this if you can sort this out let me know what the hell is going on 9690 0693, 13 13 32. Earlier I recorded an interview with the Climate Change Minister Greg Combet. COMBET: How are you Neil? MITCHELL: Im well thank you. We know who wont pay carbon tax on petrol, who will pay? COMBET: Well well be announcing the details in the not too distant future. Now weve got a bit of tidying up to do but weve nearly finalised the package, so all of the other details will come out then. But the main thing at the moment is that we can confirm that motorists, households, small business people with light commercial vehicles wont be paying anything else at the petrol bowser when a carbon price comes in. MITCHELL: Do you accept that were going to have a duel system of some sort? Where some people pay and some dont? COMBET: Well petrol for motorists, households, you know, tradies, small business people with light commercial vehicles theyre definitely out of the carbon price and well announce the other way in which fuel will be treated when we do the final package. MITCHELL: Is that really fair to say whos out, but you wont say whose in? I mean that creates a climate of fear around it. COMBET: I think when you see, when we do the announcement, that its a fair approach that were taking. 4 July 2011

MITCHELL: Okay when will that be? COMBET: In the not very distant future now, Im sorry I cant put a specific date on it, but were talking days not weeks now. MITCHELL: Why have you announced who wont pay? Is this just really a bit of political window dressing isnt it? You say who wont pay but you wont say who will. COMBET: Well its very important I think that people start to get some information, as I say were not far off announcing the final details of the package. So everything will be laid out for people to properly examine. But I think, as you know, one of the most sensitive issues in the community and for people around the country is petrol prices. Its a big part of peoples weekly expenditure and we wanted to make clear that petrol wont increase as a consequence of a carbon price. MITCHELL: Well petrol for some people wont increase? COMBET: Well well see all of the details when it comes out, but for motorists, households, you know tradesman, small business people with light commercial vehicles, petrol will not increase for them. MITCHELL: But you keep telling me that, it is only half the story. Now has it yet been decided how it will work? Who will pay? COMBET: Were just about to finalise all of the final elements and well announce it. MITCHELL: No, but on petrol specifically has it been decided or not? COMBET: Well the other parts of transport fuel that were really talking about after youve considered the impact on petrol is some of the other areas of business. So well announce how business transport fuels will be treated when we do the final package Neil. MITCHELL: But has that been decided yet or not? COMBET: Well, all of it is just getting tidied up at the moment mate, so its not appropriate for me to go into the final details of it. MITCHELL: I understand that, but what Im getting at is whether its been decided, whether this is in fact sort of an exercise in spin doctoring, well tell you the good not the bad, or whether you actually havent finally decided how youre going to treat petrol. COMBET: Well I dont think its spin doctoring if were able to assure the community that petrol prices for them wont be going up, thats an important piece of information, weve confirmed thats the case, well put the rest of the details out shortly. MITCHELL: Youve confirmed its the case for some, not all. COMBET: Well well put the rest of the detail out shortly, sorry to repeat myself but its not far away now.

MITCHELL: Do you accept that any increase in the price of fuel for the trucking industry will flow through to consumers? COMBET: Well again, its best just to wait and see what we put out when we finalise the package and announce it. MITCHELL: Do you accept that this is creating a climate of uncertainty? COMBET: I think theres been a lot of uncertainty for a while unfortunately, but were very close to finalising that and well resolve all the uncertainty and people will have the opportunity to see all of the detail very soon now. MITCHELL: This week? COMBET: I cant confirm the date but its not far away. MITCHELL: Is there the possibility well be in the situation, you drive into a petrol station, some people pay one price and others pay another? COMBET: No I dont anticipate that. MITCHELL: Is there a chance that diesel will be treated differently? COMBET: Well have to wait until the package comes. MITCHELL: Is it correct that the petrol excise is being reviewed by the Productivity Commission? COMBET: Now, the Greens I should say are in no position to be announcing inquiries on behalf of the Government. And when we do announce the whole package, well announce exactly what will take place in that respect. But its not for the Greens to be announcing anything. MITCHELL: I thought that they had announced that thered be a review of petrol excise by the Productivity Commission, are they wrong? COMBET: I think that the proper way to interpret that is the Greens are probably feeling that they wouldve liked petrol to be subject to a carbon price. Thats not going to be the case and so there looking for something, you know, else to explain. But really its not for the Greens to be announcing Productivity Commission enquiries. Well put that out you know, the proper construction of it when we announce the package. MITCHELL: But are they wrong? COMBET: Lets wait and see Neil. MITCHELL: This is, I mean seriously, the Prime Minister went out yesterday and launched this oh, these people wont pay. Now were sort of theres no more detail to the point that we dont know who will pay, who wont pay, whether theyll be a review of excise which could put all petrol up anyway, it is just totally confusing, can I suggest...

COMBET: It is not confusing Neil. Motorists, small business people, light commercial vehicles wont pay more at the petrol bowser when a carbon price comes in. MITCHELL: Whats a big commercial vehicle? COMBET: That is a very significant thing to make clear to people, its very important in their weekly expenditures. There are other aspects of the treatment of fuel, as Ive said, that well announce when we put all of the details out and that will not be far away. MITCHELL: So youre talking about small commercial vehicles, what is a non-small commercial vehicle? COMBET: Well Im not in a position to announce all of that at the moment, as Ive said a few times. MITCHELL: So why announce anything? COMBET: Because we want to assure motorists, were just confirming that we... MITCHELL: (Interrupts) But youre not, your frightening people here. COMBET: Were not frightening people. Were assuring them that theres no increase in petrol prices when the carbon price comes in. MITCHELL: Okay. COMBET: For motorists, you know small business people and the like. MITCHELL: Whats a small business? COMBET: Well anyone with a light commercial vehicle were referring to there, and a household vehicle, they will not pay extra at the petrol bowser when a carbon price comes in. MITCHELL: And whats a light commercial vehicle? COMBET: Well one that uses petrol in particular is the obvious distinction. MITCHELL: Okay, so any vehicle that uses petrol? COMBET: Well put all of that out. But you can basically say that people who are purchasing petrol, whether theyre motorists, you know, households, small business people with light commercial vehicles they will not face an increase at the petrol bowser when the carbon price comes in. As to all the other treatment of fuels, which are mainly business uses of fuels, well put that detail out in the very near future. MITCHELL: Okay, could diesel be treated differently? COMBET: Well its just not appropriate for me to go into that at the moment. MITCHELL: How much does Government subsidise fuel for business?

COMBET: There are various, a range of things, it would take us a good while and Im not an expert on that whole field. MITCHELL: Fair enough. COMBET: But theres a range of, theres a range of ways in which fuel credits are applied to different forms of business use of diesel. MITCHELL: Are they up for review? COMBET: Well, Im sorry to repeat myself mate, but we will announce all treatment of business fuels when we put the package out. MITCHELL: Okay, but I mean that sounds as if they are part of a review, is that a fair extrapolation or not? COMBET: No its not fair. Just wait until we put it out. It wont be far away. MITCHELL: But you wont tell me whats happening, you wont tell me when its happening. COMBET: Well theres quite a few details still to come, youll just have to hold on for a little bit longer. MITCHELL: Okay. Just one underlying thing to all this, do you accept that any increase in the price of diesel or fuel anywhere flows through to customers? If youre going to deliver the milk with a truck and you put up the price of diesel, bang goes the price of milk. COMBET: Well until we announce how the business fuels are going to be treated or transport use in the business sector, its not appropriate to speculate about what the impacts are. MITCHELL: No, no, but Im not asking you to speculate, thats a simple fact. If diesel was to go up X amount, do you accept that that would flow through to a lot of consumer goods? COMBET: Well its a theoretical question and theoretically it might have a small impact, but you have to wait until we announce how diesel and other business fuel use would be treated under the carbon price. MITCHELL: So it might have a small impact? COMBET: Thats exactly what Im not confirming, no. You asked me a theoretical question, I answered it, but you have to wait for the details when we put the whole of the carbon price package out. MITCHELL: Id say its hardly theoretical, its a matter of principle, its a simple principle, if fuel goes up, prices go up. COMBET: I wouldnt be fretting too much about this Neil. Were making clear that petrol wont be affected by the carbon price for motorists and small business people with light commercial vehicles. The rest of the business use of fuel will be specified, will be detailed when we put the package out.

MITCHELL: Okay, I appreciate your time, do you think that theres a bit of a sign here that the Greens reckon theyre running things when theyre making statements about Productivity Commission reviewing fuel excise, as you say, thats the role of the Government to do that. Are the Greens getting a bit big for their greenie boots? COMBET: Well Id say I dont think its an appropriate thing for them to be indicating. MITCHELL: Bobs boots getting too big? COMBET: I wouldnt say that, but it wasnt an appropriate thing for them to be announcing. MITCHELL: Thank you very much for your time. COMBET: See you Neil, bye bye. ENDS