Mesa Boogie Poweramp & Cabinet

Mesa Boogie Poweramp

Aye, the 50/50 is a stereo tube poweramp. That's what makes it especially wonderful
for use with a modeler. You simply hook the analog outs of the GT-8 to the inputs of
the 50/50, and away you go.

I have one in my rack, hooked up to a pair of Avatar 4X12 cabs. Oh, it's blissful, that
wall of stereo sound, even at low volumes. What makes it especially versatile is the
switch for low power mode. 15W per side vs 50W at full power. Suitable for most
any venue or practice space.

It is a highly regarded power amp, much more so than later offerings. Can be found
on ebay relatively cheap. Pretty much transparent as far as coloring the tone goes.

For both channels, set Presence at 8, Input level at 2, and hit it. Control the overall
volume with the GT-8 output level control. I'd shoot for a pair of 2X12s - but then I've
found that once you go stereo it's hard to go mono again.

Well dang if I didn't just post on that very thing. I recently scored a Mesa Boogie
50/50 tube stereo power amp, and am running that into an Avatar 4X12 with
Celestions. Friggin' awesome sound!!!

I know my settings won't necessarily apply, but I set the level on the amp at 2, dime
the presence, and set the GT-8 output level between 1/2 and 3/4, depending on how
loud I want to sound.

Let us know how you like that Carvin. I was looking at that one as well as Peavey
Classic 50/50s and the Mesas.

I used to run a 1960b cab which is stereo, it sounded great if you were sitting on the
floor right in front of it, but it is still gunna miss that stereo seperation, it's nothing
like having 2 seperate cabs on either side of the room, or 2 FRFR speakers set up in
stereo....

One thing I don't like though in a live stereo situation is using Dual L/R stereo
preamps...cause the sound changes a bit depending on where your located in
relation to the 2 speakers, and how far out they are spread...

I run a full stereo set up now w/ FRFR and I use my amp as a monitor.... I always use
Dual MONO to keep the sound tight and focused throught the venue....

For recording purposes I think the Dual L/R is fine, especially if you reverse the
channels and double track it...

There's one mod that you might want to consider. Mesa follows the strategy of fixed
bias current. Thus, you are almost forced to replace your tubes with Mesa brand
only. And those are certainly not the best you can get. And they have the habit to
underbias their tubes, whcih can result in a flat sounding amp. I recently had a
variable bias-regulator circuit installed and now I can put in any tube, at the bias I
like.

What output setting are you using? With the GX-700, I couldn't bypass the speaker
sims for distorted sounds without having terrible fizz. This resulted in a muffled
sounds without fizz, but I was unable to really cut through. With the GT, I use stack
return mostly, with a lowpass at around 8 kHz. Excellent!

Am curious about the bias mod - is this a DIY thing you found some info on, or was
this a pro mod? The fella I bought the amp from put in Groove Tubes 6L6s in it, and I
wondered about the bias aspects of this.

I'm still experimenting with settings, but am getting good results using Line Out on
the GT-8. I take a patch I like direct, turn off cab sims and mic sims, set the direct
level to 100, and add eq/Tone Modify to taste. My tones are very close to the same
patch with FRFR gear, except with a lot more meat. Going to try Stack Return
tonight. Thanks for the tip.

My friend who used one stated I should just dime the presence on the 50/50 and go
from there. Going along with that for now. Dunno if there is a better way.

I am also finding that with high gain patches I can lower the preamp gain when
going through the Mesa, because the 50/50 dishes up some nice power tube
distortion all on it's own. Pick attack is so articulated, it just sounds so punchy and
fat.

This amp is a keeper for me. Have got some of the best tones I've ever heard
coming out of it. Now I just need to master tweaking for it.

Actually, I have run several brands of glass in my mesas, and to be honest, I have
gotten the best results from the Mesa branded tubes. Wasn't just my ears either-
several people noticed.
I now love to play new amps as they come out, but the versatility of the modeler-
poweramp-cab rig is untouchable. If you cant swing a 50/50 or more, check out the
Mesa 20/20. Don't take my word for it, check it for yourself. One of Mesas best.
My next investment will be another cab- a Mesa 212 (roadster model) and that will
finish my rig. I run stereo now (which is also the only way to run a GT8), and can't
wait to seperate the cabs and bask in the beam.

It's a pro mod, that is, I had someone do it for me His site is http://www.drtube.nl/,
but it's in Dutch. You can probably find somebody to do it.

Several reasons for it.... First of all, Mesa recommends Mesa tubes only. These are
just standard run-of-the-mill tubes from a different brand, but they have been
carefully selected to match the fixed bias current of the 50/50. With a new Mesa label
over it they can sell it 3 times the normal price.

If you want to use different brand tubes (e.g. the Groove tubes you have now) you
run the risk of having one or more tubes over- or underbiased. An overbiased tube
will degrade faster than normally, although it might sound very nice An
underbiased tubes will sound flat, deadish. Mesa typically uderbiases their amps so
they can survive 1st year warranty.
With a bias mod you can place in any tubes you want (also EL84's with an extra
socket) and set the bias current for the tubes the way you like. You can choose a
low bias to save tube life or you can have a hotrodded amp with redblazing tubes
that last a couple of gigs... it's your choice.

There are several excellent tube brands out there, like Svetlana and JJ.

Mesa Boogie cabinet

If you plug a 16ohm cab in the 4ohm output of the amp this impedance mismatch is
safe and is fine. If you plug and 4 ohm cab into the 16ohm output of the amp it
would be bad for the amp.

Basically the 4 ohms on the amp is the minimum load of what the amp needs to see
from the cabs in order to work right.

If your Mesa amp has got a 16 ohm out, use that one for your 16 ohm Orange
speaker cabinet. It isn't right to say "can handle", it HAS GOT a resistance of 16
ohm. I think different speaker outputs on your amp send signals with a different
voltage/current proportion, so that provided power value remain the same if you use
one 16 ohm cab with the 16 ohm amp's output, or if you use one 8 ohm cab with the
8 ohm amp's output, or if you use one 4 ohm cab with the 4 ohm amp's output.
You can plug your speaker cabinet into every speaker output of your amp I believe,
since the resistance of your cab is higher than the minimal one requested (which is
the indicate one) by the amp itself. It would have been a problem if you had a
cabinet with a lower resistance plugged into a speaker out of your amp with a
higher nominal output impedance (again, the indicated one): in that case the amp is
not able to dissipate all the power on your speakers and you will damage internal
circuitry of the amp.
If you plug your cabinet into a speaker output which has got a lower nominal
impedance value, you will do a safe mismatch, but the power provided by the amp
would be less than the one you could get pairing a 16/8/4 ohm cabinet respectively
with the 16/8/4 ohm speaker output of your amp. I don't know if even the tone would
suffer because of this...

Mesa Boogie cabinet

If you plug a 16ohm cab in the 4ohm output of the amp this impedance mismatch is
safe and is fine. If you plug and 4 ohm cab into the 16ohm output of the amp it
would be bad for the amp.

Basically the 4 ohms on the amp is the minimum load of what the amp needs to see
from the cabs in order to work right.

If your Mesa amp has got a 16 ohm out, use that one for your 16 ohm Orange
speaker cabinet. It isn't right to say "can handle", it HAS GOT a resistance of 16
ohm. I think different speaker outputs on your amp send signals with a different
voltage/current proportion, so that provided power value remain the same if you use
one 16 ohm cab with the 16 ohm amp's output, or if you use one 8 ohm cab with the
8 ohm amp's output, or if you use one 4 ohm cab with the 4 ohm amp's output.
You can plug your speaker cabinet into every speaker output of your amp I believe,
since the resistance of your cab is higher than the minimal one requested (which is
the indicate one) by the amp itself. It would have been a problem if you had a
cabinet with a lower resistance plugged into a speaker out of your amp with a
higher nominal output impedance (again, the indicated one): in that case the amp is
not able to dissipate all the power on your speakers and you will damage internal
circuitry of the amp.
If you plug your cabinet into a speaker output which has got a lower nominal
impedance value, you will do a safe mismatch, but the power provided by the amp
would be less than the one you could get pairing a 16/8/4 ohm cabinet respectively
with the 16/8/4 ohm speaker output of your amp. I don't know if even the tone would
suffer because of this...

Using 1 channel mono

If you switch on a power amp not connected to a cab you might hurt it. On a 50/50
power amp you have 2×4ohm and 1×8hm outputs per side. When you have a 4 ohm
mono cab, resistor should be put in the other output.

It's always best to plug a load on each output of your poweramp, however, if that is
not possible you can connect a single cab of proper wattage and impedance on one
channel and leave the other unloaded. All you have to do is to unplug the signal
from the input of the unused channel, turn the output volume of the unused channel
to zero and turn the presence to the maximum.

If you do so, nothing serious should happen to your poweramp. I did that dozens of
time when I had a Mesa 20/20, no damage occurred.

If you run the poweramp like that very often, it is a smart idea to swap the channels
from time to time, to keep the same amount of tube wearout on the two channels.

Hi, I'm looking for some advice on trouble shooting a crackle problem I’m having
with my 20/20

things I have tried or observed....

- I only get a crackle on the left channel. (right channel is fine)

- I cleaned the volume pot and presence pot, no effect
- I changed all the tubes, no effect
- The crackle is only noticeable when you're not playing
- the crackle doesn't get louder with the volume
- it crackles with and without a preamp being used

any suggestions ???

I had the same problem with my DC-3.

It ended up being burned power tube sockets.

I replaced all of them and found one with a broken filament leg on the socket itself.

All of the noise went away after the socket change.

Is it possible to connect the slave output of channel A into the input of channel B?

I am assuming you want to provide the same input to both channels of the 20/20.
Many preamps have stereo outputs and it is easier to connect these outputs to the
20/20 inputs than what you are suggesting. If your preamp does not have stereo
outputs we are back to your original question. I did look for a schematic of a 20/20
but unfortunately I could not find one. Next best thing to do is contact Mesa directly.
I have heard they are nice folks to deal with. Hope this helps.

NO NO NOOOOOOO
be aware, the slave outputs aren´t an internal routing between two inputs.
the slave outputs feeds signal directly from the output, the insert point is just the
same than 4,8 ohms output, the only reason you could use the slave output into line
inputs is that mesa provides a voltage divider on the slave output that reduces the
20-30 volts of outputs into aproximately 2,5 volts ( a reduction with a factor of 10 )

I used the slave outputs into the input of the 20/20 and it worked fine.

So i've read that a lot of 20/20 users prefer to replace the stock EL84s with JJ Tesla
EL84s. Have any of you guys tried those or any other tubes in the 20/20? What are
the tonal differences?

i kno that the JJ 6L6's were an improvement in my amp(but i replaced both pre and
power tubes), even tho they are a different type of tube, the brand itself may give
you an improvement in sound. i found that the sound is clearer and less muddy with
my amp

I've tried a few NOS options in my 20/20, and ended up liking Tungsram EL84 the
best. They've allow for much better clarity than any current-production option, and
actually out-performed Mullard EL84, in my opinion. Tungsrams provide extended
frequency response, from tight bass through sparkly high frequencies, and I find
their breakup to be very musical. The tricky thing is getting a quad that is the
correct rating for the fixed-bias 20/20.

I purchased my Tungsram EL84 from Zeitmann Tubes. Since my first purchase, I've
had four or five additional transactions with them, all of which have been smooth as
silk, even though they're located in Hungary. They're first-class sellers.

i kno that the JJ 6L6's were an improvement in my amp

Hunh? Confused The 20/20 takes EL84 output tubes only.

i just put new tubes in that I ordered from "doug's Tubes" and they are fantastic to
my ears. I described to Doug what I was looking for from my 20/20 and triaxis and i
purchased the tubes he recommended for both.....this is what I put in the 20/20;

Matched Quad JJ EL84

3 JJ ECC83S balanced

20/20 in Mono

I have two marshall 4x12's that are each 8 ohm mono. My usual set up is the two
cabinets hooked up to the 8 ohm outs on each side. I am wondering if there is a way
to hook up just one 8 ohm cabinet while still utilizing both sides of the 20/20? Would
I have to wire a switch into the cab or just make a special Y-Cable?

You cannot put two sides of the 20/20 into 1 8ohm input because that would be like
plugging a cable from the 8ohm on channel A into the 8 Ohm on channel B. The
result would not be pretty and I doubt the amp would survive very long. You will
have to split the cab into two different sections. I am not sure how the cab you have
is wired but assuming all 4 speakers are 8ohms you could wire each side to be 4
ohms and run the cab like that. Or you can run 1 channel of the amp only to the
8ohm input of the cab but make sure you do not plug a signal into the unused side.

Using 1 cab with a 20/20 is no problem. I use a Marshall 1965A (4x10) with mine. The
channel you are not using you turn the volume all the way down and the presence
all the way up - not sure why but this is what the manual says to do.

I know how to do it with one side, but then i'm not utilizing the full power of the amp.
I've been researching rewiring one cabinet for mono/stereo operation but with four 8
ohm speakers the only combination I can think of is two wired in parallel on each
side making a four ohm load for each side of the cabinet and plugging the mesa into
each side of that via the four ohm outs, and then making a switch or cable to bring it
back to mono 8 ohms, like a y cable that has a mono plug going into the mesa's 8
ohm jack and two plugs to go into each of the cab's four ohm inputs and the cable
wired to series. I'm just wondering if there was an easier way

Hi, I did a similar thing of running the 20/20 in to a "supposed" stereo quadbox. I ran
it this way for a while then thought it sounded weird so checked the wiring and
discovered it wasnt stero at all, both inputs were in parrallel! yikes.

So I rewired it so I have 2 x 8 ohm speakers in series for each side giving me

2x16ohm. this allows me to run the 20/20 in full stereo out of the 8 ohm outputs. I
also made a small resistor pack thats 16ohm also and put that in parrallel to the
speaker so its looks like 8 ohms to the amp when running at home, it reduces the
volume slightly. But running 16ohm is no problems either way.
You could wire it this way and have the 2nd socket that only separates it stereo
when the 2nd plug is inserted thus being 8 ohm mono or 16 ohm stereo. Depends if
your happy running in series or parallel.

Take that resistor out before you destroy the resistor and then hurt the amp from
not having a load. You do not need an 8ohm load in the 8 ohm jack. The manual
states you can run a 16 ohm or 8 ohm load on the 8 ohm jack.

Adding resistance to speakers is not how you get proper impedance.

disassembled, the resistor is in parrallel so even if it burnt out (which it wont) the
speakers are still connected. I had a few words with Ted Webber and its the same
idea as one of the products he sells used for removing speakers out of a quadbox
yet maintaining the load.

disassembled, the resistor is in parrallel so even if it burnt out (which it wont) the
speakers are still connected. I had a few words with Ted Webber and its the same
idea as one of the products he sells used for removing speakers out of a quadbox
yet maintaining the load.
cheers

What is the wattage rating of that resistor?

its a nest of 12x5watt resistors giving 16ohm load. so its in effect 60watt. the things
dont even get warm with the amp at full tilt. Also its not taking the full power of them
amp only a small portion, if it was in series then that would be different Smile .
cheers.

Yeah well in that case it's ok. I just don't want you to confuse others in turn having
someone blow up their amp by using a 1/4 watt resistor as part of the load.
Too Much Bass

I find that I like to dial out at least 5 dB with an eq from about 85 Hz and below. This
cleans/tightens up the bass, leaving more room for bass guitar. So, yes, I could say I
find the 20/20 has too much bass. But it really does depend on cabinets, and where
they're placed, as well as a few other factors.
Replacement tubes

Hey guys, I'm thinking of replacing the tubes of my 20/20 power amp but I don't
really know which ones to get.
Can anyone help? I'll replace all the el-84 and the 12ax7 tubes.

For the power tubes, any brand of a matched quad will work. So you can go with
Sov's, Ei, JJ, etc. Each have their advantages/disadvantages and their diffferent
pirce points. Any 12AX7 will work with your amp. More than likely your amp came
with Sovtek EL84's and either chinese or sovtek 12AX7's. I personally prefer JJ for
everything and go through Eurotubes.com. There are a myriad of NOS tubes that
are usually not worth the price unless you are dead set on something. I suggest
buying tubes that are affordable as you are supposed to replace them every year or
so, depending upon use, to retain the tone. New tubes are fairly cheap (figure
around $10 per 12AX7 and around $30 for 4 matched EL84) so it's ok to experiment.

High Pitched squeal

With info from MB I fixed the issue myself. Apparently the knobs took a shot during
shipping which dislodged the threaded covers/grounding from the pots. 1/2"
(13mm) deep socket, 20mm allen wrench and a pair of needle nose pliers got
everything reseated.