"What we had on May 14, that they could presume?

" Interview with Carlos Taibo, professor of Political Science and author of "The 1 5M in sixty questions" "The traditional left does not understand what an Assembly movement" Taibo participated in the conference "other views, other alternatives" that are part of the Anti-Poverty Week, organized by the NGO Coordinator of Cantabria and University of Cantabria Carlos Taibo is one of the voices that amplifies the movement 15M. Professor of political science, discusses in his latest book, "15 M in sixty questions," the characteristics of a movement which in its five months has achieved several succ esses. For Taibo, the two columns supporting 15M entire architecture of social m ovements are critical and angry young men. The first are the historical unoffici al left, the second, young ultrapreparados without many employment opportunities in sight. Those two "souls" as he defines them, might add a third which would g ive a boost and expand the demands: the working class. An impoverished middle cl ass whose living conditions are degraded. Taibo held a speech highly critical of the traditional left and proudly waving c oncepts such as "anti-capitalism," "anti-globalization" or "decline", but his po sition as a professor, he admits, does not put in a superior position. Rather, i t identifies critical leftist movements and actively participates in the commiss ion of their neighborhood. This Saturday, 15 on demonstrations in over 50 countries. Periodismohumano inter view him. Periodismohumano. Behind the 15 M is a work of many years of critical social mov ements and various backgrounds, such as demonstrations of the war in Iraq or the Prestige. Has been a long time to emerge? Carlos Taibo. Yes, to the point that many thought would not happen something. If the attacks were increasing and there was no perceptible popular response, it m eant missing the basis for organizing something different. But the characteristi cs of this type of movement is something we know very badly, if at a given momen t they meet certain factors is that behind that did not seem to exist if there w as a willingness to question things. But it is also true that someone will say t hat this is offset because it is now stronger than elsewhere. Now then, yes, but perhaps has exhibited and exhibits greater strength. I still surprised the inte rest aroused abroad, to the point that here we do not give much importance. P. One of the criticisms of the movement's success is that it does not call as m any people as other causes ... C.T. The demonstrations I've seen have been glorious in number, with all the wis dom of using the number of protesters as a scale on reality. In Madrid, the demo nstration against the constitutional reform convened by the two major unions and United Left brought together 4,000 people. These are quite less than what meets the 15M. There is an objective change. P. Beyond electoral concerns, do you think the political class is given a blind eye to the demands of the movement? C.T. I think so. But I think the attitude of the members of 15M is not to modify the behavior of politicians though it may seem otherwise, is to assume the crea

tion of a different space where they articulate different game rules. If politic ians change their behavior would be an advantage occurrence. A colleague studied Catalan Catalan employers' demands and the result was that after the 15M had so ftened. A four-month movement may be asked not successful because it has not dev eloped its full potential. P. How well has the movement and attempts to shake the label of Accession of pol itical forces? C.T. Yes, and not only that. It's what I call "social thermometer quickening" of these angry young men which has produced interesting and intelligent behavior. The example I put the reform of the electoral law. If you ask me by law, I will say I do not care because I do not vote, but if you ask me if it is unfair, say yes. And if someone asks me for support, I will give, but in exchange for that p erson to interfere in generating these spaces of autonomy. There is no reason to believe that he is in favor of reforming the electoral law is against the space s of autonomy of critical social movements. That balance of knowing the other to give something in exchange for the other gives you is something you are doing v ery well on 15M. And it has more to do with the indignant that critical social m ovements, which carry certain grounds and some "bad milk". In addition, many pro test movements disappear when a part of their demands are accepted by the instit utions. P. What are the two "souls" of each movement? C.T The two parties make a contribution. Social movements have attracted critica l and angry young men had "radicalized". The other soul, which are such critical social movements, they lacked an understanding of important work that young peo ple are beginning to provide them. When my university is called a constituent as sembly of 15 M, thankfully they appear twelve students at the preparatory meetin g as higher have a very limited talent to convene this meeting. Yet young people are well furnished head many times and practical experience in mobilization and organization. Complements a thing with another, all in a good atmosphere. P. But there are also small groups of radical left messages very sectoral. C.T. Not rule out that there have happened in any case. But I think overall this has not happened. When I speak of alternative social movements, I'm thinking of the left who has made a continuous exercise of self-criticism, not the speech o f the traditional left pamphleteer. It is the discourse of the left alternative, the base assembly, self-management. Although this does not cancel the risk of d eveloping outbursts messages that anyone put off, the pamphlet is always there. I link to that world, and when I am in an auditorium, can agree or disagree with what I say, but never say that I am a pamphlet. They will say: "There's a thoug ht process, we can discuss." But I do not take people from the audience by the r adicalism of my thoughts. And I think she is going to happen in the future, when the radical messages will have more room. P. The most progressive media have supported the movement, however you are very critical of them. Why? C.T. The problem is that a supposedly left-wing newspaper has an address unable to see beyond the institutional circuit. Furthermore, their interpretation is th at the movement is much more moderate. I mean organic, not to any writer. The tr aditional left does not understand what an Assembly movement. It has a biologica l inability to understand this or to give it a sense that people on the street i s perceived as such. The 15-M were caught unawares. P. In general, right-wing media have tried to ridicule the 15M from the beginnin g. Why?

C.T. Understand that the relationship of the media has some merit. And the movem ent responds to many of the foundations of official culture pseudemocrtica. There' s a biological mechanism of rejection of the people of the order. The movement s eeks to change by a very quiet training. We say that the political class does no t represent us. And that does not mean they do not represent others. I say that I do not represent me. I understand that the power strata confrontational becaus e this is not to question one or another element of the policy, but the system. P. His commitment to the future of the movement is to consolidate a social force , is also the prognosis? C.T. I do not know. My thesis is that in most places the merger between these tw o souls have done well and what remains of the movement is a reasonable ferment the Assembly movement, self-managed and capitalist. But what is the real influen ce of this new emerging reality? I do not know. We will attend a hardening of of ficial policies and the breeding ground for that to sprout will be higher. P. However, we have seen that when the police intervened, the movement has attra cted more people ... C.T. It is an interesting topic. In the past, the crackdown on the movement caus ed fear and retreat. Now the opposite happens. P. One of the achievements of the movement has been a change in perception. Is i t an evolutionary step in society? C.T. I use the words of epidermis and background. Originally, most of the angry young men questioned the epidermis: corruption and insecurity, but now most know that there is something in all dimensions. Everyone talks about the financial c risis, aid to banks. But behind there is a disturbing phenomenon of exhaustion o f material resources, labor exploitation, environmental aggressions ... This mea ns that the head of the majority of people have called on this area very quiet, very fluid, to be question the merits, not the surface. P. Since last May 15 policies and financial instability have had more presence. How do you tell a young person today that their demands can be realized? C.T. Handling the concept of integration in spaces of autonomy, which implies th at should not be left to other solutions to their problems involves the creation of consumer groups, people in cities seek to establish a link with the rural en vironment , sorting and distribution networks, involving, for example, that when there is a contest to award the management of a cafeteria at a college, rather than presenting the usual hospitality groups, students think if they can not be them; and implies that instead of going to a publishing system with the rules of the game, you can create your own editorial. This I believe is at the forefront of many people.

P. The change is complete ... C.T. But that is what we are. What I can not say it's going to come up immediate ly. The other day in my neighborhood commission, a commission of mutual support. Studies show that animal societies progress from the hand of cooperation and so lidarity, not competition. The term "mutual support" is people who donate their time or their property, and that draws a very different attitude to the prevaili ng commercial logic, including the speeches of right-thinking left. Not in the h ands of others the resolution of problems, but we solve problems. Do not think a nyone visibly hostile to the proposals of 15 M. It is difficult, so we are clear

, but my libertarian view is that we are part of the system we want to change. W e must free ourselves from these codes. When I hear voices pessimistic about the 15M, I ask, "What we had on May 14, that they could presume?". Some things are now, how to avoid foreclosures, which were previously unthinkable.