USDOR 0911-1013 Ab - Part20

Emails come from PST files that were linked to a post on biggovernment.com by Thomas Ryan. PDF by www.teapartycheer.
com
i l l i o n d o l l a r s i n t a x p a y e r m o n e y a n d > > s u b s i
Emails come from PST files that were linked to a post on biggovernment.com by Thomas Ryan. PDF by www.teapartycheer.com
d i e s . A f t e r t h e s e g l o b a l b a n k s c r a s h e d o u r e c
o n o m y a n d t o o k t r i l l i o n s o f > > d o l l a r s o f o u r n
a t i o n a l w e a l t h , w h i c h s a v e d t h e i r i n s o l v e n t c
o m p a n i e s f r o m > > g o i n g o u t o f b u s i n e s s , t h e y t
u r n e d a r o u n d a n d h a d t h e a u d a c i t y t o g i v e > > t h
e m s e l v e s a l l t i m e r e c o r d b r e a k i n g b o n u s e s .
> > > > T h e y u s e d o u r t a x d o l l a r s t o g i v e t h e m s e

l v e s a l l t i m e r e c o r d i n g b r e a k i n g > > b o n u s e
s . > > > > A t a t i m e o f n a t i o n a l c r i s i s , w i t h c a l

l s f o r s h a r e d s a c r i f i c e , t h e y u s e d o u r > > t a x d
o l l a r s t o g i v e t h e m s e l v e s a l l t i m e r e c o r d b r
e a k i n g b o n u s e s . > > > > A s a r e s u l t o f t h e i r a c t

i o n s , o u r c o u n t r y h a s b e e n e c o n o m i c a l l y a t t a c
k e d . T h e > > s t a t i s t i c s s p e a k f o r t h e m s e l v e s .
> > > > A c c o r d i n g t o t h e N a t i o n a l A c a d e m y o f S c

i e n c e s , w e h a v e o v e r 5 0 m i l l i o n > > A m e r i c a n s l
i v i n g i n p o v e r t y . T h i s s h o c k i n g n u m b e r o f A m e
r i c a n f a m i l i e s > > c u r r e n t l y l i v i n g i n p o v e r t
y i s a t a n a l l t i m e h i g h . O v e r 5 0 m i l l i o n A m e r i c
a n s > > a r e a l s o w i t h o u t h e a l t h c a r e . 4 6 m i l l i o
n A m e r i c a n s a r e r e l y i n g o n f o o d s t a m p s > > t o f e
e d t h e i r f a m i l i e s . O v e r 6 4 m i l l i o n A m e r i c a n s h
a v e z e r o o r n e g a t i v e n e t > > w o r t h . O v e r 2 0 0 m i l
l i o n A m e r i c a n s a r e l i v i n g p a y c h e c k t o p a y c h e c
k d e s p e r a t e l y > > s t r u g g l i n g t o m a k e e n d s m e e t
a s t h e y a r e b u r i e d i n d e b t .
A s t h i s d i r e > > s i
t u a t i o n g r o w s e v e n m o r e s e v e r e , t h e g l o b a l f i n
a n c i a l e l i t e a r e r i c h e r t h a n > > e v e r . O v e r t h
e c o u r s e o f t h e p a s t g e n e r a t i o n , t h e y h a v e c o n s
o l i d a t e d w e a l t h > > i n u n p r e c e d e n t e d f a s h i o n
. W e c u r r e n t l y h a v e t h e h i g h e s t i n e q u a l i t y o f w
e a l t h > > i n A m e r i c a n h i s t o r y . N o t e v e n t h e R o
b b e r B a r o n s w e r e a s b a d a s t h e m o d e r n d a y > > e c o
n o m i c e l i t e . > > > > I n t h e U S , m i l l i o n a i r e h o u

s e h o l d s c u r r e n t l y h a v e o v e r $ 4 6 t r i l l i o n i n w e
a l t h . > > O n a n a n n u a l b a s i s , o n l y o n e t e n t h o f
o n e p e r c e n t o f t h e U S p o p u l a t i o n m a k e s > > o v e r
$ 1 m i l l i o n p e r y e a r . B r e a k i n g i t d o w n e v e n f u r
t h e r , 4 0 0 A m e r i c a n > > b i l l i o n a i r e s c u r r e n t l
y h a v e a s m u c h w e a l t h a s 1 5 4 m i l l i o n A m e r i c a n s .
T h e s e > > 4 0 0 p e o p l e h a v e a s m u c h w e a l t h a s h a l
f o f t h e e n t i r e U S p o p u l a t i o n . > > > > A s w e s a i d

b e f o r e , w e a r e n o t a g a i n s t r i c h p e o p l e f o r b e i n
g r i c h .
W e b e l i e v e > > w e a l t h s h o u l d b e a b y p r
o d u c t o f w o r k i n g t o g e t h e r t o s o l v e o u r p r o b l e m
s w i t h > > a l i g n e d i n t e r e s t s . > > > > O u r f a m i l

i e s a n d o u r c o u n t r y h a v e e n d u r e d f i n a n c i a l o p p
r e s s i o n f o r l o n g > > e n o u g h . > > > > P l e a s e j o i

n u s o r o r g a n i z e a n a c t i o n o f y o u r o w n . A n y t h i n
g y o u a r e w i l l i n g t o > > d o t o r e b e l a g a i n s t e c o n
o m i c t y r a n n y i n a n o n v i o l e n t m a n n e r i s w e l c o m
e . > > > > > > > >
From: To: Subject: Date:
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of shaista husain september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1 Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:18:23 PM
Doug Singsen, Thank you, I couldn't have said it better--"The way to make this the strongest possible fight is to link all these issues--the entire 99% in a united struggle. That's whats possible here and that's the example we have to set." On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > I actually think that right now almost no one is going to be scared away by > us being "too radical." This is a moment when large numbers of people are > fed up with multiple aspects of US politics and economy: corporate power, > union-busting, layoffs, war, and more. This is the time to be uniting all > these issues. And they are indeed all connected by finance. Finance is about > control of wealth and resources, which when you come down to it is what > every social struggle is about. Everything on this planet has been > commodified, from labor to the environment to education and on and on, so > all these areas are connected by finance. One way or another, Wall Street > has its hand in literally every form of oppression and exploitation on the > globe. The way to make this the strongest possible fight is to link all > these issues - the entire 99% - in a united struggle. That's what's possible > here and that's the example we have to set. > > Doug > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Gabriel Johnson <gabjoh2@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I just want to second Barry's point on keeping it focused on finance; >> everything is interrelated, of course, but this is *Occupy Wall Street* and >> a lot of the side ones are going to have a lot of our natural allies dismiss >> us. I just also might add some sort of taxing the rich plank; it's something >> enormously popular, all across the (even American) political spectrum. >> --glj >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Winter Siroco <wintersiroco@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> I hope that people are for major and enduring transformations, not for >>> minor reforms. >>> Cesar >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 7:24 AM, Barry Ritholtz <ritholtz@optonline.net> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Folks: >>>> In terms of goals and desires, the simpler and more fundamental a list, >>>> the more like that actual change can be effected. >>>> I would keep it focused on finance (ie. Wall Street) and on issues that >>>> actually matter and can be a rallying cry for the nation. >>>> We don't want a top 10 list -- at least not as the main goals -- it >>>> becomes too unfocused. >>>> I suggest 3 goals, with specific political action to follow >>>> 1. Get dirty Wall St Money out of politics/legislative process >>>> 2. No more bailouts >>>> 3. End TBTF banks >>>> The legislative goals of each could be as follows:
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
1. CAMPAIGN FINANCE: Constitutional amendment changing the rules of campaign finance, providing public finance, removing the massive inflow of cash -- I believe Dylan called auctioning our Congress to the highest bidder. A national campaign to get that amendment on every ballot in every state is a very doable goal. (Marketing: "Take Congress back from Wall St!") 2. BAILOUTS: No more bailouts is obvious -- time to end private gains and socialized losses of crony capitalism (Marketing: "Bring Back Real Capitalism!" ) 3. TBTF: As George Shultz famously said, "If they're too big to fail, make them smaller." The bailouts have made the TBTF banks an even bigger, less competitive oligarchy. Bring back competition by limiting the size of these, either in terms of % of deposits or dollar amounts. Many ways to accomplish this, including an FDIC caps on insurance would be effective. (Bring now private citizen Sheila Bair into the discussion) These are all doable measurable goals, that can have a real impact on legislation, the economy and taxes. But do understand this: Whatever is accomplished will be temporary without campaign finance reform . . .
Barry L. Ritholtz CEO, Director of Equity Research Fusion IQ 535 Fifth Avenue, 25th floor New York, NY 10017 212-661-2022 x7104 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Big Picture: Macro perspectives on the Capital Markets, Economy, and Geopolitics http://www.ritholtz.com/
On Oct 4, 2011, at 6:52 PM, George Washington wrote: Since so many people think there is already an official list of demands, I wrote this to clear the air: No, There Is NOT a List of Official Demands from the Protesters As a side note, this guy has an interesting list: 1) End the Collusion Between Government and Large Corporations/Banks, So That Our Elected Leaders Are Actually Representing the Interests of the People (the 99%) and Not Just Their Rich Donors (the 1%). 2) Investigate Wall Street and Hold Senior Executives Accountable for the Destruction in Wealth that has Devastated Millions of People. 3) Return the Power of Coining Money to the U.S. Treasury and Return to Sound Money 4) Limit the Size, Scope and Power of Banks so that None are Ever Again
>>>> Too Big to Fail and in Need to Taxpayer Bailouts >>>> >>>> 5) Eliminate Personhood Legal Status for Corporations >>>> >>>> 6) Repeal the Patriot Act, End the War on Drugs and Protect Civil >>>> Liberties >>>> >>>> 7) End All Imperial Wars of Aggression, Bring the Troops Home from All >>>> Countries, Cut the Military Budget and Limit The Military Role to Protection >>>> of the Homeland >>>> >>>> Curious if both liberals and conservatives on this list informally (and >>>> confidentially) agree. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Yves Smith <yves@nakedcapitalism.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Right now, more people show up for work every day at Goldman than have >>>>> shown up for these protests. >>>>> We know that the grievances of the protestors are widely shared. But >>>>> the risk is that demands lead to some sort of Potemkin negotations or >>>>> dismissals in the press as to how unrealistic the demands are ("Throw Wall >>>>> Street execs in jail! We tried that, they succeeded in getting the laws >>>>> gutted so there is no way to do that. So you want us to become a nation of >>>>> vigilantes?") >>>>> The more people show up, continue to look like a good cross section of >>>>> America, and make statements individually (via sites like We are the 99%, >>>>> via their placards or when interviewed with the press) that resonate with >>>>> people, the more the space of what is possible gets bigger. >>>>> This is starting to change what it is acceptable to say in the media. >>>>> That's very good initial progress. >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 4, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Michael Hudson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I should have added that it is easiest to agree on what the >>>>> SYMPTOMS are. The economy is dying. Its being killed by financial >>>>> mismanagers. Its polarizing. >>>>> Neither party is addressing the root causes thats really >>>>> why these guys are out there. >>>>> Michael >>>>> >>>>> On 10/4/11 3:56 PM, "Yves Smith" <yves@nakedcapitalism.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> My concern re stating formal and explicit demands is that the >>>>> officialdom will start an effort to pretend to address the demands or >>>>> negotiate with "leaders" as a way to keep more people from turning out. A >>>>> sustained effort that keeps growing, even it it grows slowly (and the growth >>>>> may not be slow) is really disconcerting to the officialdom. It's something >>>>> they cant contain and don't know how to deal with. >>>>> >>>>> My reader tell me the movement in Spain developed along precisely these >>>>> lines, there were no formal overarching goals/demand articulated, but there >>>>> was a lot of discussion among various groups at the local level as to what >>>>> their grievances were. >>>>> >>>>> They also said the protests were transformational on a broader social >>>>> level. Letting it percolate slowly seems to have been very powerful. It >>>>> helps for people to find their voice. >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
It's pretty obvious what the protestors want. That's why the call for demands is awfully disingenuous.
On Oct 4, 2011, at 3:34 PM, Matthew Taibbi wrote: Let me ask you a question. If this were the Iraq war you were protesting instead of Wall Street corruption, would it be "naive" to demand a withdrawal from Iraq? Are you saying it's "naive" because it's unreasonable to expect results? I don't understand the use of that word in this context. --- On Tue, 10/4/11, Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote: From: Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> Subject: Re: OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1 To: "Matthew Taibbi" <m_taibbi@yahoo.com> Cc: "Yves Smith" <yves@nakedcapitalism.com>, "Dylan Ratigan" <dylanratigan@gmail.com>, "Michael Hudson" <michael.hudson@earthlink.net>, "WilliamBlack" <blackw@umkc.edu>, "David DeGraw" <AmpedStatus@ampedstatus.com>, "september17@googlegroups.com" <september17@googlegroups.com>, "yotam.marom@gmail.com" <yotam.marom@gmail.com>, "vlad@glassbeadcollective.com" <vlad@glassbeadcollective.com>, "dissector@mediachannel.org" <dissector@mediachannel.org>, "Nomi" <nomi@nomiprins.com>, "Michael" <mh@michael-hudson.com>, "Mike Papantonio" <MPapantonio@levinlaw.com>, "MichaelKrieger" <michael@kamlp.com>, "George Washington" <georgewashington.911blogger@gmail.com>, "Tyler Durden" <tyler@zerohedge.org>, "ellenhbrown@gmail.com" <ellenhbrown@gmail.com>, "Karl" <karl@denninger.net>, "Barry" <thebigpicture@optonline.net>, "Kevin Zeese" <kbzeese@gmail.com>, "max" <maxkeiser@gmail.com>, "Matt" <M_TAIBBI@yahoo.com>, "Simon" <baselinescenario@gmail.com>, "Zach" <carter.zach@gmail.com>, "David CayJohnston" <dcjohn01@law.syr.edu>, "Bill Laggner" <laggner@bearingasset.com>, "Paul" <paulcraigroberts@yahoo.com>, "Noam Chomsky" <chomsky@mit.edu>, "BillMoyers" <moyersb@moyersmedia.com>, "ggreenwald@salon.com" <ggreenwald@salon.com>, "glen.ford@blackagendareport.com" <glen.ford@blackagendareport.com>, "oftwomindz@comcast.net" <oftwomindz@comcast.net> Date: Tuesday, October 4, 2011, 3:05 PM I am for elaborating collective discourse, but perhaps better in terms of general GOALS rather than demands. Demads are naive at this point, to put it shoftly. This is not incompatible with strategic actions that may achieve short term victories. Due to our location I think we should provide our view of the economic facts, and prioritize our actions toward short term and long term solutions. Regarding the elaboration of collective discourse, perhaps we should try some form of open source or similar wiki-process that would facilitate multiple contributions from diverse viewpoints. Cesar Sent from phone
On Oct 4, 2011, at 10:40 AM, Matthew Taibbi <m_taibbi@yahoo.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=m_taibbi@yahoo.com> > wrote:
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
I disagree with the notion that there shouldn't be demands. I think there should be a few simple ones. It's not a MSM conspiracy when the press wonders what the movement wants or who is leading it. I think there are a lot of people in the press and even on Wall Street who are ready to support the movement wholeheartedly, if it could articulate some specifics. If OWS could identify a few basic problems -- over-concentration of capital, regulatory capture, overweening influence of money on politics, excess financialization of the economy, tax unfairness, etc -- and propose some first-step solutions to all of those things (break up the banks, force bailout recipients to give up lobbying, end the carried interest and capital gains exemptions as Michael points out, etc), you'd have more allies, you'd be educating the public about a subject that it has a tough time getting real information about through normal media, and it would prevent the other side of the debate from being able to define the movement in their own (inevitably unflattering) terms. The only thing preventing millions of people from going out onto the streets on their own is that they don't understand how Wall Street works or what it does. That to me is why the movement needs to be specific. It has a responsibility to explain these problems to the general public and to show that solutions do exist and that they're attainable. People I think need more than just the knowledge that they can protest -- they need to believe that they can fix things and that someone out there has the answers. And a lot of the people on this email list do have the answers and could provide that leadership that is so desperately needed.
--- On Tue, 10/4/11, Dylan Ratigan <dylanratigan@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=dylanratigan@gmail.com> > wrote: From: Dylan Ratigan <dylanratigan@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=dylanratigan@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1 To: "Yves Smith" <yves@nakedcapitalism.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=yves@nakedcapitalism.com> > Cc: "Michael Hudson" <michael.hudson@earthlink.net <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=michael.hudson@earthlink.net> >, "Black, William" <blackw@umkc.edu <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=blackw@umkc.edu> >, "David DeGraw" <AmpedStatus@ampedstatus.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=AmpedStatus@ampedstatus.com> >, "september17@googlegroups.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=september17@googlegroups.com> " <september17@googlegroups.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=september17@googlegroups.com> >, "yotam.marom@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=yotam.marom@gmail.com> " <yotam.marom@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=yotam.marom@gmail.com> >, "Winter Siroco" <wintersiroco@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=wintersiroco@gmail.com> >, "vlad@glassbeadcollective.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=vlad@glassbeadcollective.com> " <vlad@glassbeadcollective.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=vlad@glassbeadcollective.com> >, "dissector@mediachannel.org <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=dissector@mediachannel.org> " <dissector@mediachannel.org
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
<x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=dissector@mediachannel.org> >, "Nomi" <nomi@nomiprins.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=nomi@nomiprins.com> >, "Michael" <mh@michael-hudson.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=mh@michael-hudson.com> >, "Mike Papantonio" <MPapantonio@levinlaw.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=MPapantonio@levinlaw.com> >, "Michael Krieger" <michael@kamlp.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=michael@kamlp.com> >, "George Washington" <georgewashington.911blogger@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=georgewashington.911blogger@gmail.com> >, "Tyler Durden" <tyler@zerohedge.org <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=tyler@zerohedge.org> >, "ellenhbrown@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=ellenhbrown@gmail.com> " <ellenhbrown@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=ellenhbrown@gmail.com> >, "Karl" <karl@denninger.net <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=karl@denninger.net> >, "Barry" <thebigpicture@optonline.net <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=thebigpicture@optonline.net> >, "Kevin Zeese" <kbzeese@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=kbzeese@gmail.com> >, "max" <maxkeiser@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=maxkeiser@gmail.com> >, "Matt" <M_TAIBBI@yahoo.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=M_TAIBBI@yahoo.com> >, "Simon" <baselinescenario@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=baselinescenario@gmail.com> >, "Zach" <carter.zach@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=carter.zach@gmail.com> >, "David Cay Johnston" <dcjohn01@law.syr.edu <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=dcjohn01@law.syr.edu> >, "Bill Laggner" <laggner@bearingasset.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=laggner@bearingasset.com> >, "Paul" <paulcraigroberts@yahoo.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=paulcraigroberts@yahoo.com> >, "Noam Chomsky" <chomsky@mit.edu <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=chomsky@mit.edu> >, "Moyers, Bill" <moyersb@moyersmedia.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=moyersb@moyersmedia.com> >, "ggreenwald@salon.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=ggreenwald@salon.com> " <ggreenwald@salon.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=ggreenwald@salon.com> >, "glen.ford@blackagendareport.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=glen.ford@blackagendareport.com> " <glen.ford@blackagendareport.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=glen.ford@blackagendareport.com> >, "oftwomindz@comcast.net <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=oftwomindz@comcast.net> " <oftwomindz@comcast.net <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=oftwomindz@comcast.net> > Date: Tuesday, October 4, 2011, 9:17 AM I agree with Yves entirely. The focus on simple shared principle and intent to align with all who agree with that principle is a unique strength. Learning, teaching and growing. On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Yves Smith <yves@nakedcapitalism.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=yves@nakedcapitalism.com> > wrote: I disagree strongly with the idea of any demands now. The number participating are far too small for the effort to have any bargaining leverage or to be perceived to represent anyone. What is hugely disconcerting to the MSM and the officialdom is the lack of demands and the lack of easy to identify leadership These need to be understood as strengths, not weaknesses. The labor union movement was over time completely discredited because the leadership was quickly corrupted and sold out the membership. The "We are the 99%" is a VERY powerful message. It basically says "We don't need to negotiate. This is our country and we want it back from the top 1% which has been selling us out." The 1% know damned well what the
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
99% want. If you forced any 10 in the top 1% of them to make a list of 10 things they thought the other 99% wanted, I guarantee you'd have no more than 16 real issues (at most) among the 100 answers you'd get in total. And I strongly suspect the 99% would agree or at most restate them. They are MUCH better off making a general statement along the "We Are 99%" that holds their ground, and makes clear that their first priority is establishing their presence, building a critical mass and representation around the US. There should be a clever way of throwing the demand for demands back on the media: "It has taken years to create this mess, the public has been sold on the idea that it is powerless. Our first aim is to convey that the bottom 99% doesn't merely have the right to a seat at the table, it should not have to negotiate with the top 1% because the elites depend on our acquiescence and support for their very survival." There has to be a nice way to say that, but I would brush off the demand and make it clear that organization/membership building and (I hate to use that tired 60s term, but it fits) consciousness raising are the first priorities. The more the numbers swell, the more power this effort has. Issuing demands is not on the critical path right now and has the potential to deter people from joining. The broader public understands damned well what the aims are even if the elites and their media lapdogs are playing stupid. On Oct 3, 2011, at 3:54 PM, Michael Hudson wrote: > I suggest putting a specific POLICY DEMAND. > How about "Bankruptcy legislation to free people without jobs from > student loan debt." > Or more accurately: "Tax capital gains as high as wages." > "Remove the tax deductibility of debt." > "A Public Option for Credit Cards -- lower the rates and penalties." > Michael Hudson > > > On 10/3/11 3:37 PM, "Black, William" <blackw@umkc.edu > <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=blackw@umkc.edu> > wrote: > >> I would recommend adding/substituting something along these lines. >> If we're >> going to raise the subject of "fraud" we need to give some of the >> supporting >> facts. >> >> The systemically dangerous institutions (SDIs) are inaccurately >> called "too >> big to fail" banks. The administration calls them "systemically >> important," >> and acts as if they deserve a gold star. The ugly truth, however, >> is what >> Wall Street and each administration screams when the SDIs get in >> trouble. >> They warn us that if a single SDI fails it will cause a global >> financial >> crisis. There are roughly 20 U.S. SDIs and about the same number >> abroad. >> That means that we roll the dice 40 times a day to see which SDI >> will blow up >> next and drag the world economy into crisis. Economists agree that
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
the SDIs are so large that they are grotesquely inefficient. In "good times," therefore, they harm our economy. It is insane not to shrink the SDIs to the point that they no longer hold the global economy hostage. The ability -- and willingness -- of the CEOs that control SDIs to hold our economy hostage makes the SDIs too big to regulate and prosecute. It also allows them to extort, dominate, and degrade our democracies. The SDIs pose a clear and present danger to the U.S. and the world. It takes a global effort against the SDIs because they constantly put nations in competition with each other in order to generate a "race to the bottom." We are always being warned that if the U.S. adopts even minimal regulation of its SDIs they will flee to the City of London or be unable to compete with Germany's "universal" banks. The result of the race to the bottom, however, as Ireland, Iceland, the UK, and U.S. all experienced is that we create intensely criminogenic environment that creates epidemics of "control fraud." Control fraud -- frauds led by CEOs who use seemingly legitimate entities as "weapons" to defraud -- cause greater financial losses than all other forms of property crime -- combined. Because of the political power of the SDIs and the destruction of effective regulation these fraudulent SDIs now commit endemic fraud with impunity. Effective financial regulation is essential if markets are to work. Regulators have to serve as the "cops on the beat" to keep the fraudsters from gaining a competitive advantage over honest firms. George Akerlof, the economist who identified and labeled this perverse ("Gresham's") dynamic was awarded the Nobel Prize in 2001 for his insight about how control fraud makes market forces perverse. [D]ishonest dealings tend to drive honest dealings out of the market. The cost of dishonesty, therefore, lies not only in the amount by which the purchaser is cheated; the cost also must include the loss incurred from driving legitimate business out of existence. George Akerlof (1970). One of the most perceptive observers of humanity recognized this
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
same dynamic two centuries before Akerlof. "The Lilliputians look upon fraud as a greater crime than theft. For, they allege, care and vigilance, with a very common understanding, can protect a mans goods from thieves, but honesty hath no fence against superior cunning. . . where fraud is permitted or connived at, or hath no law to punish it, the honest dealer is always undone, and the knave gets the advantage." Swift, J. Gullivers Travels We are the allies of honest banks and bankers. We are their essential allies, for only effective regulation permits them to exist and prosper. Think of what would happen to banks if we took the regular cops off the beat and stopped prosecuting bank robbers. That's what happens when we take the regulatory cops off the beat. The only difference is that it is the controlling officers who loot the bank in the absence of the regulatory cops on the beat. It is the anti-regulators who are the enemy of honest banks and bankers. Top criminologists, effective financial regulators, and Nobel Laureates in economics have confirmed that epidemics of control fraud, such as the FBI warned of in September 2004, can cause financial bubbles to hyper-inflate and drive catastrophic financial crises. Indeed, the FBI predicted in September 2004 that the developing "epidemic" of mortgage fraud would cause a financial "crisis" if it were not stopped. It grew massively after 2004. The fraudulent SDIs (who were far broader than Fannie and Freddie, indeed, they only began to dominate the secondary market in sales of fraudulent loans after 2005) ignored the FBI and industry fraud warnings for the most obvious of reasons -- they were leaders the frauds. The ongoing U.S. crisis was driven overwhelmingly by fraudulent "liar's" loans. Studies have shown that the incidence of fraud in liar's loans is 90% (MBA/MARI 2006) and that by 2006 roughly one-third of all mortgage loans were liar's loans (Credit Suisse 2007). Rajdeep Sengupta, an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, reported in 2010 in an article entitled Alt-A: The Forgotten Segment of the Mortgage Market that:
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
"[B]etween 2003 and 2006 subprime and Alt-A [loans grew] 94 and 340 percent, respectively. The higher levels of originations after 2003 were largely sustained by the growth of the nonprime (both the subprime and Alt-A) segment of the mortgage market." Sengupta's data greatly understate the role of Alt-A loans (the euphemism for liars loans) for they ignore the fact that by 2006 half of the loans called subprime were also liars loans (Credit Suisse: 2007). It was the massive growth in fraudulent liars loans that hyper-inflated and greatly extended the life of the bubble, producing the Great Recession. The growth of fraudulent loans rapidly increased, rather than decreased, after government and industry anti-fraud specialists warned that liar's loans were endemically fraudulent. No one in the government ever told a bank that it had to make or purchase a "liar's" loan. No honest mortgage lender would make liar's loans because doing so must cause severe losses. Criminologists, economists aware of the relevant criminological and economics literature on control fraud, and a host of investigations have confirmed the endemic nature of control fraud in the ongoing U.S. crisis. But the banking elites that led these frauds have been able to do so with impunity from prosecution. Take on federal agency, the Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS). During the S&L debacle, the OTS made well over 10,000 criminal referrals and made the removal of control frauds from the industry and their prosecution its top two priorities. The agency's support and the provision of 1000 FBI agents to investigate the cases led to the felony conviction of over 1,000 S&L frauds. The bulk of those convictions came from the "Top 100" list that OTS and the FBI created to prioritize the investigation of the worst failed S&Ls. In the ongoing crisis -which caused losses 40 times larger than the S&L debacle, the OTS made zero criminal referrals, the FBI (as recently as FY 2007) assigned only 120 agents nationally to respond to the well over one million cases of mortgage fraud that occurred annually, and the OTS' non-effort produced no convictions of any S&L control frauds. OTS' sister agencies, the Fed and the OCC, have
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
the same record of not even attempting to identify and prosecute the frauds. The FDIC was better, but still only a shadow of what it was in fighting fraud in the early 1990s. If control frauds can operate with impunity from criminal prosecutions, then the perverse Gresham's dynamic is maximized and market forces will increasingly drive honest banks and firms from the marketplace. The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission reported on the results of the Great Recession that was driven by this fraud epidemic: "As this report goes to print, there are more than 26 million Americans who are out of work, cannot find full-time work, or have given up looking for work. About four million families have lost their homes to foreclosure and another four and a half million have slipped into the foreclosure process or are seriously behind on their mortgage payments. Nearly $11 trillion in household wealth has vanished, with retirement accounts and life savings swept away. Businesses, large and small, have felt the sting of a deep recession." It is the fraudulent SDIs that are the massive job killers and wealth destroyers. It is the Great Recession that the fraudulent SDIs produced that caused most of the growth in the federal deficits and made the fiscal crises in our states and localities acute. The senior officers that led the control frauds are the opposite of the "productive class." No one, without the aid of an army, has ever destroyed more wealth and dreams than the control frauds. It is past to hold them accountable, to help their victims recover, and to end their ongoing frauds and corruption that have crippled our economy, our democracy, and our nation. jj Best, Bill Black ________________________________________ From: David DeGraw [AmpedStatus@AmpedStatus.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=AmpedStatus@AmpedStatus.com> ] Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 12:33 PM To: september17@googlegroups.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=september17@googlegroups.com> ; yotam.marom@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=yotam.marom@gmail.com> ; Winter Siroco;
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
vlad@glassbeadcollective.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=vlad@glassbeadcollective.com> ; dissector@mediachannel.org <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=dissector@mediachannel.org> ; dylanratigan@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=dylanratigan@gmail.com> ; Nomi; Black, William; yves@nakedcapitalism.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=yves@nakedcapitalism.com> ; Michael; Mike Papantonio; Michael Krieger; George Washington; Tyler Durden; ellenhbrown@gmail.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=ellenhbrown@gmail.com> ; Karl; Barry; Kevin Zeese; max; Matt; Simon; Zach; David Cay Johnston; Bill Laggner; Paul; Noam Chomsky; Moyers, Bill; ggreenwald@salon.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=ggreenwald@salon.com> ; glen.ford@blackagendareport.com <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=glen.ford@blackagendareport.com> ; oftwomindz@comcast.net <x-msg://128/mc/compose?to=oftwomindz@comcast.net> Subject: Re: OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1 here it is w/ Dylan's suggested revisions, the ending needs smoothing out, let's see if we can finalize something tonight in GA - flooded w/ calls rght now, will be on NBC w/ Brian William tonight STATEMENT: we are publishing this statement in response to misinformation being spread throughout some media outlets, we would like to issue the statement below to give some clarification as to why we are currently occupying Wall Street: Now let us make something clear to our fellow American citizens. We - old, young, rich, poor, middle class, black, white, blue, red, hippies, conservatives, liberals, soldiers, teachers, lawyers, doctors, firefighters, and yes, police officers - the people occupying Wall Street, are not against rich people for being rich, as various corporate media outlets are attempting to make you think we are. We believe wealth should be a byproduct of working together to solve our problems with aligned interests. To clarify, what we are fighting against are the people, politicians and corporations who are responsible for trillions of dollars in fraud. We are fighting a political system that has been hijacked and rigged against hardworking Americans by the global financial elite. We are rebelling against economic tyranny. We are defending the United States against an occupying global financial oligarchy.
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
Our families have endured financial oppression for long enough. We are here to defend the people of the United Sates. America has been invaded and is currently occupied by global banks that have systematically looted our economy and destroyed our economic future. Through a system of political bribery - campaign finance, lobbying and the revolving door between Washington and Wall Street the global financial elite have bought off our politicians and now dominate our political process. So-called too big to fail financial companies, such as Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America and Citigroup are responsible for trillions of dollars in fraudulent activity. As their global derivative Ponzi scheme began to crash, these global corporations got paid off politicians and the Federal Reserve to give them over $20 trillion dollars in taxpayer money and subsidies. After these global banks crashed our economy and took trillions of dollars of our national wealth, which saved their insolvent companies from going out of business, they turned around and had the audacity to give themselves all-time record-breaking bonuses. They used our tax dollars to give themselves all-time recording-breaking bonuses. At a time of national crisis, with calls for shared sacrifice, they used our tax dollars to give themselves all-time record-breaking bonuses. As a result of their actions, our country has been economically attacked. The statistics speak for themselves. According to the National Academy of Sciences, we have over 50 million Americans living in poverty. This shocking number of American families currently living in poverty is at an all-time high. Over 50 million Americans are also without health care. 46 million Americans are relying on food stamps to feed their families. Over 64 million Americans have zero or negative net worth. Over 200 million Americans are living paycheck to paycheck desperately struggling to make ends meet as they are buried in debt. As this dire situation grows even more severe, the global financial elite are richer than ever. Over the course of the past generation, they have
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >
consolidated wealth in unprecedented fashion. We currently have the highest inequality of wealth in American history. Not even the Robber Barons were as bad as the modern day economic elite. In the US, millionaire households currently have over $46 trillion in wealth. On an annual basis, only one-tenth of one percent of the US population makes over $1 million per year. Breaking it down even further, 400 American billionaires currently have as much wealth as 154 million Americans. These 400 people have as much wealth as half of the entire US population. As we said before, we are not against rich people for being rich. We believe wealth should be a byproduct of working together to solve our problems with aligned interests. Our families and our country have endured financial oppression for long enough. Please join us or organize an action of your own. Anything you are willing to do to rebel against economic tyranny in a non-violent manner is welcome.
From: To: Cc:
Subject: Date:
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of J.A. Myerson september17@googlegroups.com Matthew Taibbi; Yves Smith; Dylan Ratigan; Michael Hudson; WilliamBlack; David DeGraw; yotam.marom@gmail.com; vlad@glassbeadcollective.com; dissector@mediachannel.org; Nomi; Michael; Mike Papantonio; MichaelKrieger; George Washington; Tyler Durden; ellenhbrown@gmail.com; Karl; Barry; Kevin Zeese; max; Simon; Zach; David CayJohnston; Bill Laggner; Paul; Noam Chomsky; BillMoyers; ggreenwald@salon.com; glen.ford@blackagendareport.com; oftwomindz@comcast.net Re: [september17discuss] Re: OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1 Tuesday, October 04, 2011 3:30:15 PM
The thing is, the group generally isn't itself well-versed in the intricacies of the financial sector's integration with the functions of government. Demands like restrictions on the ease of regulatory capture look disingenuous and mockable coming from a group like this one. I think it's on us to object to a system that pressures the already very wealthy to accumulate still more wealth by extending misery and suffering. Once we've created a crisis, it's on the powers that be to figure out what to concede to get us to relent. As it is, the occupations are spreading and growing without demands, and that is the critical fact right now. Along the way, Matt, it'd be great to have you or Yves or anyone do teach-ins so that we take this opportunity not only to mobilize and radicalize the participants but sophisticate us as well. In solidarity, JAM On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote: I am for elaborating collective discourse, but perhaps better in terms of general GOALS rather than demands. Demads are naive at this point, to put it shoftly. This is not incompatible with strategic actions that may achieve short term victories. Due to our location I think we should provide our view of the economic facts, and prioritize our actions toward short term and long term solutions. Regarding the elaboration of collective discourse, perhaps we should try some form of open source or similar wiki-process that would facilitate multiple contributions from diverse viewpoints. Cesar Sent from phone
On Oct 4, 2011, at 10:40 AM, Matthew Taibbi <m_taibbi@yahoo.com> wrote: I disagree with the notion that there shouldn't be demands. I think there should be a few simple ones. It's not a MSM conspiracy when the press wonders what the movement wants or who is leading it. I think there are a lot of people in the press and even on Wall Street who are ready to support the movement wholeheartedly, if it could articulate some specifics. If OWS could identify a few basic problems -- over-concentration of capital, regulatory capture, overweening influence of money on politics,
excess financialization of the economy, tax unfairness, etc -- and propose some first-step solutions to all of those things (break up the banks, force bailout recipients to give up lobbying, end the carried interest and capital gains exemptions as Michael points out, etc), you'd have more allies, you'd be educating the public about a subject that it has a tough time getting real information about through normal media, and it would prevent the other side of the debate from being able to define the movement in their own (inevitably unflattering) terms. The only thing preventing millions of people from going out onto the streets on their own is that they don't understand how Wall Street works or what it does. That to me is why the movement needs to be specific. It has a responsibility to explain these problems to the general public and to show that solutions do exist and that they're attainable. People I think need more than just the knowledge that they can protest -- they need to believe that they can fix things and that someone out there has the answers. And a lot of the people on this email list do have the answers and could provide that leadership that is so desperately needed.
--- On Tue, 10/4/11, Dylan Ratigan <dylanratigan@gmail.com> wrote: From: Dylan Ratigan <dylanratigan@gmail.com> Subject: Re: OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1 To: "Yves Smith" <yves@nakedcapitalism.com> Cc: "Michael Hudson" <michael.hudson@earthlink.net>, "Black, William" <blackw@umkc.edu>, "David DeGraw" <AmpedStatus@ampedstatus.com>, "september17@googlegroups.com" <september17@googlegroups.com>, "yotam.marom@gmail.com" <yotam.marom@gmail.com>, "Winter Siroco" <wintersiroco@gmail.com>, "vlad@glassbeadcollective.com" <vlad@glassbeadcollective.com>, "dissector@mediachannel.org" <dissector@mediachannel.org>, "Nomi" <nomi@nomiprins.com>, "Michael" <mh@michaelhudson.com>, "Mike Papantonio" <MPapantonio@levinlaw.com>, "Michael Krieger" <michael@kamlp.com>, "George Washington" <georgewashington.911blogger@gmail.com>, "Tyler Durden" <tyler@zerohedge.org>, "ellenhbrown@gmail.com" <ellenhbrown@gmail.com>, "Karl" <karl@denninger.net>, "Barry" <thebigpicture@optonline.net>, "Kevin Zeese" <kbzeese@gmail.com>, "max" <maxkeiser@gmail.com>, "Matt" <M_TAIBBI@yahoo.com>, "Simon" <baselinescenario@gmail.com>, "Zach" <carter.zach@gmail.com>, "David Cay Johnston"
<dcjohn01@law.syr.edu>, "Bill Laggner" <laggner@bearingasset.com>, "Paul" <paulcraigroberts@yahoo.com>, "Noam Chomsky" <chomsky@mit.edu>, "Moyers, Bill" <moyersb@moyersmedia.com>, "ggreenwald@salon.com" <ggreenwald@salon.com>, "glen.ford@blackagendareport.com" <glen.ford@blackagendareport.com>, "oftwomindz@comcast.net" <oftwomindz@comcast.net> Date: Tuesday, October 4, 2011, 9:17 AM I agree with Yves entirely. The focus on simple shared principle and intent to align with all who agree with that principle is a unique strength. Learning, teaching and growing. On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Yves Smith <yves@nakedcapitalism.com> wrote: I disagree strongly with the idea of any demands now. The number participating are far too small for the effort to have any bargaining leverage or to be perceived to represent anyone. What is hugely disconcerting to the MSM and the officialdom is the lack of demands and the lack of easy to identify leadership These need to be understood as strengths, not weaknesses. The labor union movement was over time completely discredited because the leadership was quickly corrupted and sold out the membership. The "We are the 99%" is a VERY powerful message. It basically says "We don't need to negotiate. This is our country and we want it back from the top 1% which has been selling us out." The 1% know damned well what the 99% want. If you forced any 10 in the top 1% of them to make a list of 10 things they thought the other 99% wanted, I guarantee you'd have no more than 16 real issues (at most) among the 100 answers you'd get in total. And I strongly suspect the 99% would agree or at most restate them. They are MUCH better off making a general statement along the "We Are 99%" that holds their ground, and makes clear that their first priority is establishing their presence, building a critical mass and representation around the US. There should be a clever way of throwing the demand for demands back on the media: "It has taken years to create this mess, the public has been sold on the idea that it is powerless. Our first aim is to convey that the bottom 99% doesn't merely have the right to a seat at the table, it should not have to negotiate with the top 1% because the elites depend on our acquiescence and support for their very survival." There has to be a nice way to say that, but I would brush off the demand and make it clear that organization/membership building and (I hate to use that tired 60s term, but it fits)
consciousness raising are the first priorities. The more the numbers swell, the more power this effort has. Issuing demands is not on the critical path right now and has the potential to deter people from joining. The broader public understands damned well what the aims are even if the elites and their media lapdogs are playing stupid. On Oct 3, 2011, at 3:54 PM, Michael Hudson wrote: > I suggest putting a specific POLICY DEMAND. > How about "Bankruptcy legislation to free people without jobs from > student loan debt." > Or more accurately: "Tax capital gains as high as wages." > "Remove the tax deductibility of debt." > "A Public Option for Credit Cards -- lower the rates and penalties." > Michael Hudson > > > On 10/3/11 3:37 PM, "Black, William" <blackw@umkc.edu> wrote: > >> I would recommend adding/substituting something along these lines. If we're >> going to raise the subject of "fraud" we need to give some of the supporting >> facts. >> >> The systemically dangerous institutions (SDIs) are inaccurately called "too >> big to fail" banks. The administration calls them "systemically important," >> and acts as if they deserve a gold star. The ugly truth, however, is what >> Wall Street and each administration screams when the SDIs get in trouble. >> They warn us that if a single SDI fails it will cause a global financial >> crisis. There are roughly 20 U.S. SDIs and about the same number abroad. >> That means that we roll the dice 40 times a day to see which SDI will blow up >> next and drag the world economy into crisis. Economists agree that the SDIs >> are so large that they are grotesquely inefficient. In "good times," >> therefore, they harm our economy. It is insane not to shrink the SDIs to the >> point that they no longer hold the global economy hostage. The ability -- and >> willingness -- of the CEOs that control SDIs to hold our
economy hostage makes >> the SDIs too big to regulate and prosecute. It also allows them to extort, >> dominate, and degrade our democracies. The SDIs pose a clear and present >> danger to the U.S. and the world. >> >> It takes a global effort against the SDIs because they constantly put nations >> in competition with each other in order to generate a "race to the bottom." >> We are always being warned that if the U.S. adopts even minimal regulation of >> its SDIs they will flee to the City of London or be unable to compete with >> Germany's "universal" banks. The result of the race to the bottom, however, >> as Ireland, Iceland, the UK, and U.S. all experienced is that we create >> intensely criminogenic environment that creates epidemics of "control fraud." >> Control fraud -- frauds led by CEOs who use seemingly legitimate entities as >> "weapons" to defraud -- cause greater financial losses than all other forms of >> property crime -- combined. Because of the political power of the SDIs and >> the destruction of effective regulation these fraudulent SDIs now commit >> endemic fraud with impunity. >> >> Effective financial regulation is essential if markets are to work. >> Regulators have to serve as the "cops on the beat" to keep the fraudsters from >> gaining a competitive advantage over honest firms. George Akerlof, the >> economist who identified and labeled this perverse ("Gresham's") dynamic was >> awarded the Nobel Prize in 2001 for his insight about how control fraud makes >> market forces perverse. >> >> [D]ishonest dealings tend to drive honest dealings out of the market. The >> cost of dishonesty, therefore, lies not only in the amount by which the >> purchaser is cheated; the cost also must include the loss incurred from >> driving legitimate business out of existence. George Akerlof (1970). >> >> One of the most perceptive observers of humanity
recognized this same dynamic >> two centuries before Akerlof. >> >> "The Lilliputians look upon fraud as a greater crime than theft. For, they >> allege, care and vigilance, with a very common understanding, can protect a >> mans goods from thieves, but honesty hath no fence against superior cunning. >> . . where fraud is permitted or connived at, or hath no law to punish it, the >> honest dealer is always undone, and the knave gets the advantage." Swift, J. >> Gullivers Travels >> >> We are the allies of honest banks and bankers. We are their essential allies, >> for only effective regulation permits them to exist and prosper. Think of >> what would happen to banks if we took the regular cops off the beat and >> stopped prosecuting bank robbers. That's what happens when we take the >> regulatory cops off the beat. The only difference is that it is the >> controlling officers who loot the bank in the absence of the regulatory cops >> on the beat. It is the anti-regulators who are the enemy of honest banks and >> bankers. >> >> Top criminologists, effective financial regulators, and Nobel Laureates in >> economics have confirmed that epidemics of control fraud, such as the FBI >> warned of in September 2004, can cause financial bubbles to hyper-inflate and >> drive catastrophic financial crises. Indeed, the FBI predicted in September >> 2004 that the developing "epidemic" of mortgage fraud would cause a financial >> "crisis" if it were not stopped. It grew massively after 2004. The >> fraudulent SDIs (who were far broader than Fannie and Freddie, indeed, they >> only began to dominate the secondary market in sales of fraudulent loans after >> 2005) ignored the FBI and industry fraud warnings for the most obvious of >> reasons -- they were leaders the frauds. The ongoing U.S. crisis was driven >> overwhelmingly by fraudulent "liar's" loans. Studies have shown that the
>> incidence of fraud in liar's loans is 90% (MBA/MARI 2006) and that by 2006 >> roughly one-third of all mortgage loans were liar's loans (Credit Suisse >> 2007). Rajdeep Sengupta, an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of St. >> Louis, reported in 2010 in an article entitled Alt-A: The Forgotten Segment >> of the Mortgage Market that: >> >> "[B]etween 2003 and 2006 subprime and Alt-A [loans grew] 94 and 340 percent, >> respectively. The higher levels of originations after 2003 were largely >> sustained by the growth of the nonprime (both the subprime and Alt-A) segment >> of the mortgage market." >> >> Sengupta's data greatly understate the role of Alt-A loans (the euphemism >> for liars loans) for they ignore the fact that by 2006 half of the loans >> called subprime were also liars loans (Credit Suisse: 2007). It was the >> massive growth in fraudulent liars loans that hyperinflated and greatly >> extended the life of the bubble, producing the Great Recession. The growth of >> fraudulent loans rapidly increased, rather than decreased, after government >> and industry anti-fraud specialists warned that liar's loans were endemically >> fraudulent. No one in the government ever told a bank that it had to make or >> purchase a "liar's" loan. No honest mortgage lender would make liar's loans >> because doing so must cause severe losses. Criminologists, economists aware >> of the relevant criminological and economics literature on control fraud, and >> a host of investigations have confirmed the endemic nature of control fraud in >> the ongoing U.S. crisis. >> >> But the banking elites that led these frauds have been able to do so with >> impunity from prosecution. Take on federal agency, the Office of Thrift >> Supervision (OTS). During the S&L debacle, the OTS made well over 10,000 >> criminal referrals and made the removal of control frauds from the industry >> and their prosecution its top two priorities. The agency's
support and the >> provision of 1000 FBI agents to investigate the cases led to the felony >> conviction of over 1,000 S&L frauds. The bulk of those convictions came from >> the "Top 100" list that OTS and the FBI created to prioritize the >> investigation of the worst failed S&Ls. In the ongoing crisis -- which caused >> losses 40 times larger than the S&L debacle, the OTS made zero criminal >> referrals, the FBI (as recently as FY 2007) assigned only 120 agents >> nationally to respond to the well over one million cases of mortgage fraud >> that occurred annually, and the OTS' non-effort produced no convictions of any >> S&L control frauds. OTS' sister agencies, the Fed and the OCC, have the same >> record of not even attempting to identify and prosecute the frauds. The FDIC >> was better, but still only a shadow of what it was in fighting fraud in the >> early 1990s. If control frauds can operate with impunity from criminal >> prosecutions, then the perverse Gresham's dynamic is maximized and market >> forces will increasingly drive honest banks and firms from the marketplace. >> >> The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission reported on the results of the Great >> Recession that was driven by this fraud epidemic: >> >> "As this report goes to print, there are more than 26 million Americans who >> are out of work, cannot find full-time work, or have given up looking for >> work. About >> four million families have lost their homes to foreclosure and another four >> and a half million have slipped into the foreclosure process or are seriously >> behind on their >> mortgage payments. Nearly $11 trillion in household wealth has vanished, with >> retirement accounts and life savings swept away. Businesses, large and small, >> have felt the sting of a deep recession." >> >> It is the fraudulent SDIs that are the massive job killers and wealth >> destroyers. It is the Great Recession that the fraudulent
SDIs produced that >> caused most of the growth in the federal deficits and made the fiscal crises >> in our states and localities acute. The senior officers that led the control >> frauds are the opposite of the "productive class." No one, without the aid of >> an army, has ever destroyed more wealth and dreams than the control frauds. >> It is past to hold them accountable, to help their victims recover, and to end >> their ongoing frauds and corruption that have crippled our economy, our >> democracy, and our nation. jj >> >> Best, >> Bill Black >> ________________________________________ >> From: David DeGraw [AmpedStatus@AmpedStatus.com] >> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 12:33 PM >> To: september17@googlegroups.com; yotam.marom@gmail.com; Winter Siroco; >> vlad@glassbeadcollective.com; dissector@mediachannel.org; >> dylanratigan@gmail.com; Nomi; Black, William; yves@nakedcapitalism.com; >> Michael; Mike Papantonio; Michael Krieger; George Washington; Tyler Durden; >> ellenhbrown@gmail.com; Karl; Barry; Kevin Zeese; max; Matt; Simon; Zach; David >> Cay Johnston; Bill Laggner; Paul; Noam Chomsky; Moyers, Bill; >> ggreenwald@salon.com; glen.ford@blackagendareport.com; oftwomindz@comcast.net >> Subject: Re: OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1 >> >> here it is w/ Dylan's suggested revisions, the ending needs smoothing out, >> let's see if we can finalize something tonight in GA flooded w/ calls rght >> now, will be on NBC w/ Brian William tonight >> >> STATEMENT: >> >> we are publishing this statement in response to misinformation being spread >> throughout some media outlets, we would like to issue the statement below to >> give some clarification as to why we are currently occupying Wall Street: >> >> Now let us make something clear to our fellow American
citizens. We - old, >> young, rich, poor, middle class, black, white, blue, red, hippies, >> conservatives, liberals, soldiers, teachers, lawyers, doctors, firefighters, >> and yes, police officers - the people occupying Wall Street, are not against >> rich people for being rich, as various corporate media outlets are attempting >> to make you think we are. We believe wealth should be a byproduct of working >> together to solve our problems with aligned interests. To clarify, what we are >> fighting against are the people, politicians and corporations who are >> responsible for trillions of dollars in fraud. We are fighting a political >> system that has been hijacked and rigged against hardworking Americans by the >> global financial elite. We are rebelling against economic tyranny. We are >> defending the United States against an occupying global financial oligarchy. >> >> Our families have endured financial oppression for long enough. >> >> We are here to defend the people of the United Sates. America has been >> invaded and is currently occupied by global banks that have systematically >> looted our economy and destroyed our economic future. Through a system of >> political bribery - campaign finance, lobbying and the revolving door between >> Washington and Wall Street the global financial elite have bought off our >> politicians and now dominate our political process. >> >> So-called too big to fail financial companies, such as Goldman Sachs, JP >> Morgan Chase, Bank of America and Citigroup are responsible for trillions of >> dollars in fraudulent activity. As their global derivative Ponzi scheme began >> to crash, these global corporations got paid off politicians and the Federal >> Reserve to give them over $20 trillion dollars in taxpayer money and >> subsidies. After these global banks crashed our economy and took trillions of >> dollars of our national wealth, which saved their insolvent companies from
>> going out of business, they turned around and had the audacity to give >> themselves all-time record-breaking bonuses. >> >> They used our tax dollars to give themselves all-time recording-breaking >> bonuses. >> >> At a time of national crisis, with calls for shared sacrifice, they used our >> tax dollars to give themselves all-time record-breaking bonuses. >> >> As a result of their actions, our country has been economically attacked. The >> statistics speak for themselves. >> >> According to the National Academy of Sciences, we have over 50 million >> Americans living in poverty. This shocking number of American families >> currently living in poverty is at an all-time high. Over 50 million Americans >> are also without health care. 46 million Americans are relying on food stamps >> to feed their families. Over 64 million Americans have zero or negative net >> worth. Over 200 million Americans are living paycheck to paycheck desperately >> struggling to make ends meet as they are buried in debt. As this dire >> situation grows even more severe, the global financial elite are richer than >> ever. Over the course of the past generation, they have consolidated wealth >> in unprecedented fashion. We currently have the highest inequality of wealth >> in American history. Not even the Robber Barons were as bad as the modern day >> economic elite. >> >> In the US, millionaire households currently have over $46 trillion in wealth. >> On an annual basis, only one-tenth of one percent of the US population makes >> over $1 million per year. Breaking it down even further, 400 American >> billionaires currently have as much wealth as 154 million Americans. These >> 400 people have as much wealth as half of the entire US population. >> >> As we said before, we are not against rich people for
being rich. We believe >> wealth should be a byproduct of working together to solve our problems with >> aligned interests. >> >> Our families and our country have endured financial oppression for long >> enough. >> >> Please join us or organize an action of your own. Anything you are willing to >> do to rebel against economic tyranny in a non-violent manner is welcome. >> >> >> > >
--
Coming Soon
-J.A. Myerson http://www.jamyerson.com 347.688.0241
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of gail zawacki september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Police leads the march into the street Sunday, October 02, 2011 12:00:20 PM
That is CLEARLY entrapment! Great video! On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:30 AM, M C <tebefoto@yahoo.com> wrote:
i uploaded some footage, slightly cut, which clearly shows the cops leading protesters to the road on the bridge before trapping them. i don't have time to make a better one for now. feel free to post anywhere. i hope you all who didn't leave and got arrested are out already and feel fine! you are making the history! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdIv5teKJB4 peace maria From: Lauren <celliwig@gmail.com> To: september17 <september17@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 10:22 AM Subject: [september17discuss] Re: Police leads the march into the street
As a safety I suggest everyone download a copy of it. On Oct 2, 9:51 am, Winter Siroco <wintersir...@gmail.com> wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fockzr7rXys > > > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:48 AM, Vicente Rubio <vrubi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/02/1022016/-New-York-Times-chan...
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Winter Siroco september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Police leads the march into the street Sunday, October 02, 2011 2:03:48 PM
There is also this one: NYPD video: Occupy Wall Street protesters at Brooklyn Bridge warned they could be arrested Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/10/02/2011-1002_nypd_video_shows_cops_warning_occupy_wall_street_protesters_they_could_be_arrest.html#ixzz1ZeHh9iM8
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/10/02/2011-1002_nypd_video_shows_cops_warning_occupy_wall_street_protesters_they_could_be_arrest.html#ixzz1ZeAnzo26 Cesar
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 11:58 AM, gail zawacki <witsendnj@gmail.com> wrote: That is CLEARLY entrapment! Great video! On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:30 AM, M C <tebefoto@yahoo.com> wrote:
i uploaded some footage, slightly cut, which clearly shows the cops leading protesters to the road on the bridge before trapping them. i don't have time to make a better one for now. feel free to post anywhere. i hope you all who didn't leave and got arrested are out already and feel fine! you are making the history! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdIv5teKJB4 peace maria
From: Lauren <celliwig@gmail.com> To: september17 <september17@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 10:22 AM Subject: [september17discuss] Re: Police leads the march into the street
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of M C september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Police leads the march into the street Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:48:26 AM
i uploaded some footage, slightly cut, which clearly shows the cops leading protesters to the road on the bridge before trapping them. i don't have time to make a better one for now. feel free to post anywhere. i hope you all who didn't leave and got arrested are out already and feel fine! you are making the history! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdIv5teKJB4 peace maria From: Lauren <celliwig@gmail.com> To: september17 <september17@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 10:22 AM Subject: [september17discuss] Re: Police leads the march into the street
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of gail zawacki september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: PS. Mind the conservative backlash Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:22:40 PM
Excellent interview! Wow, those comments are really despicable! I could only stomach a few... On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:20 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote: Brilliant Harrison!!!! On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Lauren <celliwig@gmail.com> wrote: > You look great, sorry for the threats. For now it merely betrays them > as the lying authoritarian bastards they really are.
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of shaista husain september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: PS. Mind the conservative backlash Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:42:20 PM
If there is one thing that this movement clearly represents, without demands, is the HUMAN ALTERNATIVE to the RIGHT WING. Once we mention "ReVolution" it will become clear to the world to see that there may be a silent majority of revolutionaries in the US fed up and come of age--let the racist right wing watch how we grow and spread across the US. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:22 PM, gail zawacki <witsendnj@gmail.com> wrote: > Excellent interview! Wow, those comments are really despicable! I could > only stomach a few... > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:20 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Brilliant Harrison!!!! >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Lauren <celliwig@gmail.com> wrote: >> > You look great, sorry for the threats. For now it merely betrays them >> > as the lying authoritarian bastards they really are. > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of J Wedes september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: PS. Mind the conservative backlash Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:59:15 PM
In many ways, you aren't a legit people's movement until you get death threats from Glenn Beck's people. I consider it a rite of passage... -justin On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:42 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote: If there is one thing that this movement clearly represents, without demands, is the HUMAN ALTERNATIVE to the RIGHT WING. Once we mention "ReVolution" it will become clear to the world to see that there may be a silent majority of revolutionaries in the US fed up and come of age--let the racist right wing watch how we grow and spread across the US. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:22 PM, gail zawacki <witsendnj@gmail.com> wrote: > Excellent interview! Wow, those comments are really despicable! I could > only stomach a few... > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:20 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Brilliant Harrison!!!! >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Lauren <celliwig@gmail.com> wrote: >> > You look great, sorry for the threats. For now it merely betrays them >> > as the lying authoritarian bastards they really are. > >
Please forgive me I know there is a safety group, but it isn't listed on the NYCGA.. perhaps we need to UP the comfort zone...i am looking for the working group addressing all aspects of security on NYCGA On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:58 PM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: > In many ways, you aren't a legit people's movement until you get death > threats from Glenn Beck's people. > I consider it a rite of passage... > -justin > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:42 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> If there is one thing that this movement clearly represents, without >> demands, is the HUMAN ALTERNATIVE to the RIGHT WING. Once we mention >> "ReVolution" it will become clear to the world to see that there may >> be a silent majority of revolutionaries in the US fed up and come of >> age--let the racist right wing watch how we grow and spread across the >> US. >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:22 PM, gail zawacki <witsendnj@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Excellent interview! Wow, those comments are really despicable! I >> > could >> > only stomach a few... >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:20 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Brilliant Harrison!!!! >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Lauren <celliwig@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > You look great, sorry for the threats. For now it merely betrays them >> >> > as the lying authoritarian bastards they really are. >> > >> > > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of jez bold september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: PS. Mind the conservative backlash Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:25:03 PM
beautiful!!!!!! On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:08 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote: Please forgive me I know there is a safety group, but it isn't listed on the NYCGA.. perhaps we need to UP the comfort zone...i am looking for the working group addressing all aspects of security on NYCGA On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:58 PM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: > In many ways, you aren't a legit people's movement until you get death > threats from Glenn Beck's people. > I consider it a rite of passage... > -justin > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:42 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> If there is one thing that this movement clearly represents, without >> demands, is the HUMAN ALTERNATIVE to the RIGHT WING. Once we mention >> "ReVolution" it will become clear to the world to see that there may >> be a silent majority of revolutionaries in the US fed up and come of >> age--let the racist right wing watch how we grow and spread across the >> US. >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:22 PM, gail zawacki <witsendnj@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Excellent interview! Wow, those comments are really despicable! I >> > could >> > only stomach a few... >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:20 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Brilliant Harrison!!!! >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Lauren <celliwig@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > You look great, sorry for the threats. For now it merely betrays them >> >> > as the lying authoritarian bastards they really are. >> > >> > > >
Brilliant Harrison!!!! On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Lauren <celliwig@gmail.com> wrote: > You look great, sorry for the threats. For now it merely betrays them > as the lying authoritarian bastards they really are.
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of J Wedes september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Sound permit Monday, October 03, 2011 5:35:53 PM
Suggestion: Invite some big-name people to come to police office and demand sound permit with a press conference outside. My understanding is that the place to get it is right down broadway. In the meeting community relations had today with local residents, there was mild support for the idea of residents supporting us in getting amplification in exchange for compromise on late-night drumming and loud noise. -justin On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 2:30 PM, <lisajensky@gmail.com> wrote: Hi All: There are a few of us working on this (not sure who else has been but we should surely coordinate and meet). Libor, Michael Ratner from CCR (Center for Constitutional Rights) and I met last night just to touch base about getting a few lawyers from CCR and NLJ who would be willing to advise us going forward with respect to the immediate needs of amplified sound and shelter (tents, etc.) @ Liberty. Marina from NLG is in the loop and both Michael and Marina have suggested names of lawyers to reach out to which Libor and I are doing. We'll get information and update asap. In Solidarity, Lisa Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----From: grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 17:13:46 To: <september17@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: september17@googlegroups.com Cc: <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Sound permit Lorenzo, I believe you were the last one to be on top of this, any word from the city? On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 1:21 PM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: > Can someone update who knows on the progress with the sound permit? > > -justin > > On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Sahar Vahidi <saharvahidi@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Thought it was a rumor? >> http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/09/30/occupy_wall_street_teachers_transportation_unions_set_to_join_wa.html >> >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:34 PM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> radiohead is playing a concert here at 4. theres a conversation about >>> using the system anyway, to push the issue a bit. >>> >>> will police arrest a worldfamous band? >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Marina Sitrin <marina.sitrin@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Legal is on this. None of our lawyers are confident we can get a sound
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
permit since it is not officially a public park - and we can only do so in public parks. They have all said they think it will be rejected (I am talking about National Lawyers Guild lawyers and the NYCLU lawyers.) When we apply, we are asking the city and the police for permission - it is also political. A political, rather than legal question, would be to ask Brookfield. Not that I am suggesting this, but think it would be a more direct avenue. Marina On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:50 AM, Vicente Rubio <vrubiopu@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm really sorry. We've been organizing the Open Forum and didn't know > about > the details of the sound permit (time blocs, etc) . I thought it was a > general sound permit. Please let me know if I can help with anything. > > 2011/9/30 Lorenzo Serna <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> >> >> Vicente, >> >> I can just put another one in. I picked those times, because I was >> under >> the impression it was specifically for the GA. If that's not true I >> need a >> little more information. >> >> Also: I was advised to ask for specific manageable blocs of time >> which >> make it more likely to be accepted. >> >> Alright I'll put another one in tomorrow, >> >> Lorenzo >> >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:28 AM, Vicente Rubio <vrubiopu@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Lorenzo! >>> >>> Just one thing: would it be possible to extend the sound permit to >>> 6-10pm. We are planning events from 6 to 7pm, and it would be great >>> to have >>> amplification. Let me know if it can be added, or what can we do. >>> >>> Best, >>> Vicente. >>> >>> 2011/9/30 Lorenzo Serna <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> Hello Everyone, >>>> >>>> I went ahead and put a Sound Permit Request in two days ago >>>> September >>>> 28th. I have yet to hear anything back from the Precinct which is >>>> located at >>>> 65 Broadway(two blocks from the encampment). >>>> >>>> I've yet to seriously follow up on the permit request and have >>>> heard >>>> nothing back from them. I'll try to walk over there tomorrow >>>> morning to >>>> follow up and also to put in another request for another sound >>>> permit. It >>>> doesn't cost any money to request a sound permit, you're only >>>> charged when >>>> it is accepted. >>>> >>>> >>>> Final notes: I requested the permit for the max allowed time of 5
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>> days. >>>> I also asked for two specific windows of time which were 1-3:30 pm >>>> and also >>>> 7-10pm. I'm still a little unsure why we're requesting the sound >>>> permit, so >>>> that info would be helpful. >>>> >>>> Hope everyone's dancing, >>>> >>>> Lorenzo Serna >>>> (701)330-2861 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Lauren <laurendapfraiz@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Taping this is a great idea! We should definitely expose the video >>>>> if >>>>> they do not allow us. It is so ridiculous that we cannot use >>>>> loudspeakers to organize our assemblies. >>>>> Is the legal committee looking into this? >>>>> Lauren* >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 27, 4:51 pm, J Wedes <jwe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > Lorenzo went to do this this AM. >>>>> > >>>>> > He will report back soon on what happened. >>>>> > >>>>> > I told him to videotape as much of the process as possible and >>>>> > keep >>>>> > copies >>>>> > of everything. >>>>> > >>>>> > j >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Lauren >>>>> > <laurendapfr...@gmail.com> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > > I am working today. Please keep us posted with this. >>>>> > >>>>> > > Would allow sound permit for one day or regularly? >>>>> > >>>>> > > On Sep 27, 10:57 am, Justin Wedes <jwe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > > > Hi all, I'm unable to go into precinct today. Can someone >>>>> > > > please >>>>> > > > take in >>>>> > > the application, this is critically important, to start this >>>>> > > process so we >>>>> > > can later apply pressure >>>>> > >>>>> > > > Justin Wedes >>>>> > > > Activist & Educator, Brooklyn >>>>> > >>>>> > > > Use your voice! >>>>> > > > Web:www.OurSchoolsNYC.org<http://www.ourschoolsnyc.org/> >>>>> > > > Twitter: NYCPubSchooler >>>>> > >>>>> > > > ~ >>>>> > > > There's something going on in the Islands... Check it out at >>>>> > > USUncut.org/yeslab >>>>> > > > ~- Hide quoted text >>>>> > >>>>> > - Show quoted text >>> >> > >
>>>> >>>> ->>>> Seamos realistas, hagamos lo imposible ~ che >>> >> > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of lisajensky@gmail.com september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Sound permit Monday, October 03, 2011 5:31:29 PM
Hi All: There are a few of us working on this (not sure who else has been but we should surely coordinate and meet). Libor, Michael Ratner from CCR (Center for Constitutional Rights) and I met last night just to touch base about getting a few lawyers from CCR and NLJ who would be willing to advise us going forward with respect to the immediate needs of amplified sound and shelter (tents, etc.) @ Liberty. Marina from NLG is in the loop and both Michael and Marina have suggested names of lawyers to reach out to which Libor and I are doing. We'll get information and update asap. In Solidarity, Lisa Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----From: grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 17:13:46 To: <september17@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: september17@googlegroups.com Cc: <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Sound permit Lorenzo, I believe you were the last one to be on top of this, any word from the city? On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 1:21 PM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: > Can someone update who knows on the progress with the sound permit? > > -justin > > On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Sahar Vahidi <saharvahidi@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Thought it was a rumor? >> http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/09/30/occupy_wall_street_teachers_transportation_unions_set_to_join_wa.html >> >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:34 PM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> radiohead is playing a concert here at 4. theres a conversation about >>> using the system anyway, to push the issue a bit. >>> >>> will police arrest a worldfamous band? >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Marina Sitrin <marina.sitrin@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Legal is on this. None of our lawyers are confident we can get a sound >>>> permit since it is not officially a public park - and we can only do >>>> so in public parks. They have all said they think it will be rejected >>>> (I am talking about National Lawyers Guild lawyers and the NYCLU
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
lawyers.) When we apply, we are asking the city and the police for permission - it is also political. A political, rather than legal question, would be to ask Brookfield. Not that I am suggesting this, but think it would be a more direct avenue. Marina On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:50 AM, Vicente Rubio <vrubiopu@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm really sorry. We've been organizing the Open Forum and didn't know > about > the details of the sound permit (time blocs, etc) . I thought it was a > general sound permit. Please let me know if I can help with anything. > > 2011/9/30 Lorenzo Serna <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> >> >> Vicente, >> >> I can just put another one in. I picked those times, because I was >> under >> the impression it was specifically for the GA. If that's not true I >> need a >> little more information. >> >> Also: I was advised to ask for specific manageable blocs of time >> which >> make it more likely to be accepted. >> >> Alright I'll put another one in tomorrow, >> >> Lorenzo >> >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:28 AM, Vicente Rubio <vrubiopu@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Lorenzo! >>> >>> Just one thing: would it be possible to extend the sound permit to >>> 6-10pm. We are planning events from 6 to 7pm, and it would be great >>> to have >>> amplification. Let me know if it can be added, or what can we do. >>> >>> Best, >>> Vicente. >>> >>> 2011/9/30 Lorenzo Serna <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> Hello Everyone, >>>> >>>> I went ahead and put a Sound Permit Request in two days ago >>>> September >>>> 28th. I have yet to hear anything back from the Precinct which is >>>> located at >>>> 65 Broadway(two blocks from the encampment). >>>> >>>> I've yet to seriously follow up on the permit request and have >>>> heard >>>> nothing back from them. I'll try to walk over there tomorrow >>>> morning to >>>> follow up and also to put in another request for another sound >>>> permit. It >>>> doesn't cost any money to request a sound permit, you're only >>>> charged when
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>> it is accepted. >>>> >>>> >>>> Final notes: I requested the permit for the max allowed time of 5 >>>> days. >>>> I also asked for two specific windows of time which were 1-3:30 pm >>>> and also >>>> 7-10pm. I'm still a little unsure why we're requesting the sound >>>> permit, so >>>> that info would be helpful. >>>> >>>> Hope everyone's dancing, >>>> >>>> Lorenzo Serna >>>> (701)330-2861 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Lauren <laurendapfraiz@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Taping this is a great idea! We should definitely expose the video >>>>> if >>>>> they do not allow us. It is so ridiculous that we cannot use >>>>> loudspeakers to organize our assemblies. >>>>> Is the legal committee looking into this? >>>>> Lauren* >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 27, 4:51 pm, J Wedes <jwe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > Lorenzo went to do this this AM. >>>>> > >>>>> > He will report back soon on what happened. >>>>> > >>>>> > I told him to videotape as much of the process as possible and >>>>> > keep >>>>> > copies >>>>> > of everything. >>>>> > >>>>> > j >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Lauren >>>>> > <laurendapfr...@gmail.com> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > > I am working today. Please keep us posted with this. >>>>> > >>>>> > > Would allow sound permit for one day or regularly? >>>>> > >>>>> > > On Sep 27, 10:57 am, Justin Wedes <jwe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > > > Hi all, I'm unable to go into precinct today. Can someone >>>>> > > > please >>>>> > > > take in >>>>> > > the application, this is critically important, to start this >>>>> > > process so we >>>>> > > can later apply pressure >>>>> > >>>>> > > > Justin Wedes >>>>> > > > Activist & Educator, Brooklyn >>>>> > >>>>> > > > Use your voice! >>>>> > > > Web:www.OurSchoolsNYC.org<http://www.ourschoolsnyc.org/> >>>>> > > > Twitter: NYCPubSchooler >>>>> > >>>>> > > > ~
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > >
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> > >
> > > > >
> > There's something going on in the Islands... Check it out at > USUncut.org/yeslab > > ~- Hide quoted text - Show quoted text -
-Seamos realistas, hagamos lo imposible ~ che
From: To: Cc: Subject: Date:
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of grimwomyn september17@googlegroups.com lorenzo.serna@gmail.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Sound permit Monday, October 03, 2011 5:13:51 PM
Lorenzo, I believe you were the last one to be on top of this, any word from the city? On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 1:21 PM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: > Can someone update who knows on the progress with the sound permit? > > -justin > > On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Sahar Vahidi <saharvahidi@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Thought it was a rumor? >> http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/09/30/occupy_wall_street_teachers_transportation_unions_set_to_join_wa.html >> >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:34 PM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> radiohead is playing a concert here at 4. theres a conversation about >>> using the system anyway, to push the issue a bit. >>> >>> will police arrest a worldfamous band? >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Marina Sitrin <marina.sitrin@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Legal is on this. None of our lawyers are confident we can get a sound >>>> permit since it is not officially a public park - and we can only do >>>> so in public parks. They have all said they think it will be rejected >>>> (I am talking about National Lawyers Guild lawyers and the NYCLU >>>> lawyers.) When we apply, we are asking the city and the police for >>>> permission - it is also political. >>>> >>>> A political, rather than legal question, would be to ask Brookfield. >>>> Not that I am suggesting this, but think it would be a more direct >>>> avenue. >>>> >>>> Marina >>>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:50 AM, Vicente Rubio <vrubiopu@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> > I'm really sorry. We've been organizing the Open Forum and didn't know >>>> > about >>>> > the details of the sound permit (time blocs, etc) . I thought it was a >>>> > general sound permit. Please let me know if I can help with anything. >>>> > >>>> > 2011/9/30 Lorenzo Serna <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> >>>> >> >>>> >> Vicente, >>>> >> >>>> >> I can just put another one in. I picked those times, because I was >>>> >> under >>>> >> the impression it was specifically for the GA. If that's not true I >>>> >> need a >>>> >> little more information.
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
>> >> Also: I was advised to ask for specific manageable blocs of time >> which >> make it more likely to be accepted. >> >> Alright I'll put another one in tomorrow, >> >> Lorenzo >> >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:28 AM, Vicente Rubio <vrubiopu@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Lorenzo! >>> >>> Just one thing: would it be possible to extend the sound permit to >>> 6-10pm. We are planning events from 6 to 7pm, and it would be great >>> to have >>> amplification. Let me know if it can be added, or what can we do. >>> >>> Best, >>> Vicente. >>> >>> 2011/9/30 Lorenzo Serna <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> Hello Everyone, >>>> >>>> I went ahead and put a Sound Permit Request in two days ago >>>> September >>>> 28th. I have yet to hear anything back from the Precinct which is >>>> located at >>>> 65 Broadway(two blocks from the encampment). >>>> >>>> I've yet to seriously follow up on the permit request and have >>>> heard >>>> nothing back from them. I'll try to walk over there tomorrow >>>> morning to >>>> follow up and also to put in another request for another sound >>>> permit. It >>>> doesn't cost any money to request a sound permit, you're only >>>> charged when >>>> it is accepted. >>>> >>>> >>>> Final notes: I requested the permit for the max allowed time of 5 >>>> days. >>>> I also asked for two specific windows of time which were 1-3:30 pm >>>> and also >>>> 7-10pm. I'm still a little unsure why we're requesting the sound >>>> permit, so >>>> that info would be helpful. >>>> >>>> Hope everyone's dancing, >>>> >>>> Lorenzo Serna >>>> (701)330-2861 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Lauren <laurendapfraiz@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Taping this is a great idea! We should definitely expose the video >>>>> if >>>>> they do not allow us. It is so ridiculous that we cannot use >>>>> loudspeakers to organize our assemblies.
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > >
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> > >
Is the legal committee looking into this? Lauren* On Sep 27, 4:51 pm, J Wedes <jwe...@gmail.com> wrote: > Lorenzo went to do this this AM. > > He will report back soon on what happened. > > I told him to videotape as much of the process as possible and > keep > copies > of everything. > >j > > > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Lauren > <laurendapfr...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > I am working today. Please keep us posted with this. > > > Would allow sound permit for one day or regularly? > > > On Sep 27, 10:57 am, Justin Wedes <jwe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi all, I'm unable to go into precinct today. Can someone > > > please > > > take in > > the application, this is critically important, to start this > > process so we > > can later apply pressure > > > > Justin Wedes > > > Activist & Educator, Brooklyn > > > > Use your voice! > > > Web:www.OurSchoolsNYC.org<http://www.ourschoolsnyc.org/> > > > Twitter: NYCPubSchooler > >>>~ > > > There's something going on in the Islands... Check it out at > > USUncut.org/yeslab > > > ~- Hide quoted text > > - Show quoted text -
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Lisa september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Sound permit Wednesday, October 05, 2011 9:43:54 AM
a lawyer for the nyclu is putting in sound permit application in my name this morning to use sound from 6 - 8 pm today. i will keep you updated. if we get denied, there are folks who will use the sound anyway (Udi Aloni, Slavoj Zizek, others and anyone who wants to test it). am coordinating with media to livestream it. On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:35 PM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: Suggestion: Invite some big-name people to come to police office and demand sound permit with a press conference outside. My understanding is that the place to get it is right down broadway. In the meeting community relations had today with local residents, there was mild support for the idea of residents supporting us in getting amplification in exchange for compromise on late-night drumming and loud noise. -justin On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 2:30 PM, <lisajensky@gmail.com> wrote: Hi All: There are a few of us working on this (not sure who else has been but we should surely coordinate and meet). Libor, Michael Ratner from CCR (Center for Constitutional Rights) and I met last night just to touch base about getting a few lawyers from CCR and NLJ who would be willing to advise us going forward with respect to the immediate needs of amplified sound and shelter (tents, etc.) @ Liberty. Marina from NLG is in the loop and both Michael and Marina have suggested names of lawyers to reach out to which Libor and I are doing. We'll get information and update asap. In Solidarity, Lisa Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----From: grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 17:13:46 To: <september17@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: september17@googlegroups.com Cc: <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Sound permit Lorenzo, I believe you were the last one to be on top of this, any word from the city? On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 1:21 PM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: > Can someone update who knows on the progress with the sound permit? > > -justin > > On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Sahar Vahidi <saharvahidi@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Thought it was a rumor? >> http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/09/30/occupy_wall_street_teachers_transportation_unions_set_to_join_wa.html >> >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:34 PM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> radiohead is playing a concert here at 4. theres a conversation about >>> using the system anyway, to push the issue a bit. >>> >>> will police arrest a worldfamous band? >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Marina Sitrin <marina.sitrin@gmail.com>
>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Legal is on this. None of our lawyers are confident we can get a sound >>>> permit since it is not officially a public park - and we can only do >>>> so in public parks. They have all said they think it will be rejected >>>> (I am talking about National Lawyers Guild lawyers and the NYCLU >>>> lawyers.) When we apply, we are asking the city and the police for >>>> permission - it is also political. >>>> >>>> A political, rather than legal question, would be to ask Brookfield. >>>> Not that I am suggesting this, but think it would be a more direct >>>> avenue. >>>> >>>> Marina >>>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:50 AM, Vicente Rubio <vrubiopu@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> > I'm really sorry. We've been organizing the Open Forum and didn't know >>>> > about >>>> > the details of the sound permit (time blocs, etc) . I thought it was a >>>> > general sound permit. Please let me know if I can help with anything. >>>> > >>>> > 2011/9/30 Lorenzo Serna <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> >>>> >> >>>> >> Vicente, >>>> >> >>>> >> I can just put another one in. I picked those times, because I was >>>> >> under >>>> >> the impression it was specifically for the GA. If that's not true I >>>> >> need a >>>> >> little more information. >>>> >> >>>> >> Also: I was advised to ask for specific manageable blocs of time >>>> >> which >>>> >> make it more likely to be accepted. >>>> >> >>>> >> Alright I'll put another one in tomorrow, >>>> >> >>>> >> Lorenzo >>>> >> >>>> >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:28 AM, Vicente Rubio <vrubiopu@gmail.com> >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Thanks Lorenzo! >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Just one thing: would it be possible to extend the sound permit to >>>> >>> 6-10pm. We are planning events from 6 to 7pm, and it would be great >>>> >>> to have >>>> >>> amplification. Let me know if it can be added, or what can we do. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Best, >>>> >>> Vicente. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> 2011/9/30 Lorenzo Serna <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello Everyone, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I went ahead and put a Sound Permit Request in two days ago >>>> >>>> September >>>> >>>> 28th. I have yet to hear anything back from the Precinct which is >>>> >>>> located at >>>> >>>> 65 Broadway(two blocks from the encampment). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I've yet to seriously follow up on the permit request and have >>>> >>>> heard >>>> >>>> nothing back from them. I'll try to walk over there tomorrow >>>> >>>> morning to >>>> >>>> follow up and also to put in another request for another sound >>>> >>>> permit. It >>>> >>>> doesn't cost any money to request a sound permit, you're only >>>> >>>> charged when
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>> it is accepted. >>>> >>>> >>>> Final notes: I requested the permit for the max allowed time of 5 >>>> days. >>>> I also asked for two specific windows of time which were 1-3:30 pm >>>> and also >>>> 7-10pm. I'm still a little unsure why we're requesting the sound >>>> permit, so >>>> that info would be helpful. >>>> >>>> Hope everyone's dancing, >>>> >>>> Lorenzo Serna >>>> (701)330-2861 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Lauren <laurendapfraiz@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Taping this is a great idea! We should definitely expose the video >>>>> if >>>>> they do not allow us. It is so ridiculous that we cannot use >>>>> loudspeakers to organize our assemblies. >>>>> Is the legal committee looking into this? >>>>> Lauren* >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 27, 4:51 pm, J Wedes <jwe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > Lorenzo went to do this this AM. >>>>> > >>>>> > He will report back soon on what happened. >>>>> > >>>>> > I told him to videotape as much of the process as possible and >>>>> > keep >>>>> > copies >>>>> > of everything. >>>>> > >>>>> > j >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Lauren >>>>> > <laurendapfr...@gmail.com> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > > I am working today. Please keep us posted with this. >>>>> > >>>>> > > Would allow sound permit for one day or regularly? >>>>> > >>>>> > > On Sep 27, 10:57 am, Justin Wedes <jwe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > > > Hi all, I'm unable to go into precinct today. Can someone >>>>> > > > please >>>>> > > > take in >>>>> > > the application, this is critically important, to start this >>>>> > > process so we >>>>> > > can later apply pressure >>>>> > >>>>> > > > Justin Wedes >>>>> > > > Activist & Educator, Brooklyn >>>>> > >>>>> > > > Use your voice! >>>>> > > > Web:www.OurSchoolsNYC.org<http://www.ourschoolsnyc.org/> >>>>> > > > Twitter: NYCPubSchooler >>>>> > >>>>> > > > ~ >>>>> > > > There's something going on in the Islands... Check it out at >>>>> > > USUncut.org/yeslab >>>>> > > > ~- Hide quoted text >>>>> > >>>>> > - Show quoted text >>> >> >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ->>>> Seamos realistas, hagamos lo imposible ~ che >>> >> > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of J Wedes september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Sound permit Monday, October 03, 2011 1:22:08 PM
Can someone update who knows on the progress with the sound permit? -justin On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Sahar Vahidi <saharvahidi@gmail.com> wrote: Thought it was a rumor? http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/09/30/occupy_wall_street_teachers_transportation_unions_set_to_join_wa.html On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:34 PM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: radiohead is playing a concert here at 4. theres a conversation about using the system anyway, to push the issue a bit. will police arrest a worldfamous band? On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Marina Sitrin <marina.sitrin@gmail.com> wrote: Hi all, Legal is on this. None of our lawyers are confident we can get a sound permit since it is not officially a public park - and we can only do so in public parks. They have all said they think it will be rejected (I am talking about National Lawyers Guild lawyers and the NYCLU lawyers.) When we apply, we are asking the city and the police for permission - it is also political. A political, rather than legal question, would be to ask Brookfield. Not that I am suggesting this, but think it would be a more direct avenue. Marina On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:50 AM, Vicente Rubio <vrubiopu@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm really sorry. We've been organizing the Open Forum and didn't know about > the details of the sound permit (time blocs, etc) . I thought it was a > general sound permit. Please let me know if I can help with anything. > > 2011/9/30 Lorenzo Serna <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> >> >> Vicente, >> >> I can just put another one in. I picked those times, because I was under >> the impression it was specifically for the GA. If that's not true I need a >> little more information. >> >> Also: I was advised to ask for specific manageable blocs of time which >> make it more likely to be accepted. >> >> Alright I'll put another one in tomorrow, >> >> Lorenzo >> >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:28 AM, Vicente Rubio <vrubiopu@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Lorenzo! >>> >>> Just one thing: would it be possible to extend the sound permit to >>> 6-10pm. We are planning events from 6 to 7pm, and it would be great to have >>> amplification. Let me know if it can be added, or what can we do. >>> >>> Best, >>> Vicente. >>> >>> 2011/9/30 Lorenzo Serna <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>> >>>> I went ahead and put a Sound Permit Request in two days ago September >>>> 28th. I have yet to hear anything back from the Precinct which is located at >>>> 65 Broadway(two blocks from the encampment). >>>> >>>> I've yet to seriously follow up on the permit request and have heard >>>> nothing back from them. I'll try to walk over there tomorrow morning to >>>> follow up and also to put in another request for another sound permit. It >>>> doesn't cost any money to request a sound permit, you're only charged when >>>> it is accepted. >>>> >>>> >>>> Final notes: I requested the permit for the max allowed time of 5 days. >>>> I also asked for two specific windows of time which were 1-3:30 pm and also >>>> 7-10pm. I'm still a little unsure why we're requesting the sound permit, so >>>> that info would be helpful. >>>> >>>> Hope everyone's dancing, >>>> >>>> Lorenzo Serna >>>> (701)330-2861 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Lauren <laurendapfraiz@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Taping this is a great idea! We should definitely expose the video if >>>>> they do not allow us. It is so ridiculous that we cannot use >>>>> loudspeakers to organize our assemblies. >>>>> Is the legal committee looking into this? >>>>> Lauren* >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 27, 4:51 pm, J Wedes <jwe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > Lorenzo went to do this this AM. >>>>> > >>>>> > He will report back soon on what happened. >>>>> > >>>>> > I told him to videotape as much of the process as possible and keep >>>>> > copies >>>>> > of everything. >>>>> > >>>>> > j >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Lauren <laurendapfr...@gmail.com> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > > I am working today. Please keep us posted with this. >>>>> > >>>>> > > Would allow sound permit for one day or regularly? >>>>> > >>>>> > > On Sep 27, 10:57 am, Justin Wedes <jwe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > > > Hi all, I'm unable to go into precinct today. Can someone please >>>>> > > > take in >>>>> > > the application, this is critically important, to start this >>>>> > > process so we >>>>> > > can later apply pressure >>>>> > >>>>> > > > Justin Wedes >>>>> > > > Activist & Educator, Brooklyn >>>>> > >>>>> > > > Use your voice! >>>>> > > > Web:www.OurSchoolsNYC.org<http://www.ourschoolsnyc.org/> >>>>> > > > Twitter: NYCPubSchooler >>>>> > >>>>> > > > ~ >>>>> > > > There's something going on in the Islands... Check it out at >>>>> > > USUncut.org/yeslab >>>>> > > > ~- Hide quoted text >>>>> > >>>>> > - Show quoted text Emails come from PST files that were linked to a post on biggovernment.com by Thomas Ryan. PDF by www.teapartycheer.com
>>> >> > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of J.A. Myerson september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? Sunday, October 02, 2011 5:58:07 PM
Yes, yes, yes. Endorse. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:55 PM, <bf0189@gmail.com> wrote: Excellent idea. On , Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > That's $300-600 for the 3 tickets combined, not for each ticket. With 700 arrested, that's $21K to $42K, plus 80 arrested the week before, which could be anywhere from $8K up, depending on how many tickets were given. That's a lot of money but doable given the results of previous fundraising, especially stretched out over two and a half months to raise the money. > > > > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Doug Singsen dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Can we start one? I think that everybody who was arrested got at least 3 tickets, which could easily run $300-600 each, which many of us can't afford. Can we start a legal defense fund to pay for these fines? We have been able to raise money so quickly, I think we could raise the entire amount before our desk appearances in December. > > > > > Doug S > > > > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of lisajensky@gmail.com september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? Sunday, October 02, 2011 6:08:15 PM
Totally agree. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From: "J.A. Myerson" <jesse.myerson@gmail.com> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 17:57:33 -0400 To: <september17@googlegroups.com> ReplyTo: september17@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? Yes, yes, yes. Endorse. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:55 PM, <bf0189@gmail.com> wrote: Excellent idea. On , Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > That's $300-600 for the 3 tickets combined, not for each ticket. With 700 arrested, that's $21K to $42K, plus 80 arrested the week before, which could be anywhere from $8K up, depending on how many tickets were given. That's a lot of money but doable given the results of previous fundraising, especially stretched out over two and a half months to raise the money. > > > > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Doug Singsen dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Can we start one? I think that everybody who was arrested got at least 3 tickets, which could easily run $300-600 each, which many of us can't afford. Can we start a legal defense fund to pay for these fines? We have been able to raise money so quickly, I think we could raise the entire amount before our desk appearances in December. > > > > > Doug S > > > > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of shaista husain september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? Sunday, October 02, 2011 7:25:58 PM
Dear GA, is there any way to really make the NYPD detract these fines, should we just start raising money for those arrested without first putting up a fight about this in the PRESS and embarassing and shaming the police dept for these unjust and illegal fines. This fines are preposterous, and if enough people get arrested they are making money off our protest. Thats all it is, it will stop people from protesting if we do not at least try to win the battle against these fines. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 6:08 PM, <lisajensky@gmail.com> wrote: > Totally agree. > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > ________________________________ > From: "J.A. Myerson" <jesse.myerson@gmail.com> > Sender: september17@googlegroups.com > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 17:57:33 -0400 > To: <september17@googlegroups.com> > ReplyTo: september17@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? > Yes, yes, yes. Endorse. > > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:55 PM, <bf0189@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Excellent idea. >> >> On , Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: >> > That's $300-600 for the 3 tickets combined, not for each ticket. With >> > 700 arrested, that's $21K to $42K, plus 80 arrested the week before, which >> > could be anywhere from $8K up, depending on how many tickets were given. >> > That's a lot of money but doable given the results of previous fundraising, >> > especially stretched out over two and a half months to raise the money. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Doug Singsen dougsingsen@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > Can we start one? I think that everybody who was arrested got at least 3 >> > tickets, which could easily run $300-600 each, which many of us can't >> > afford. Can we start a legal defense fund to pay for these fines? We have >> > been able to raise money so quickly, I think we could raise the entire >> > amount before our desk appearances in December. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Doug S >> > >> > >> > >> >
>> > > > > -> J.A. Myerson > http://www.jamyerson.com > 347.688.0241 >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Doug Singsen september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? Sunday, October 02, 2011 7:31:09 PM
I think we should also try to get the fines revoked, but we probably won't know if that will work or not until December, when we have to appear before a court, so we should start collecting money now just in case. We can also use the money to pay our lawyers' fees. We might have a case that NYPD lured us onto the bridge, but there's no doubt that we were, in fact, blocking traffic, which is the basis for the fines, so if we can't win the entrapment argument we will probably have to pay. Doug On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:25 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote: Dear GA, is there any way to really make the NYPD detract these fines, should we just start raising money for those arrested without first putting up a fight about this in the PRESS and embarassing and shaming the police dept for these unjust and illegal fines. This fines are preposterous, and if enough people get arrested they are making money off our protest. Thats all it is, it will stop people from protesting if we do not at least try to win the battle against these fines. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 6:08 PM, <lisajensky@gmail.com> wrote: > Totally agree. > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > ________________________________ > From: "J.A. Myerson" <jesse.myerson@gmail.com> > Sender: september17@googlegroups.com > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 17:57:33 -0400 > To: <september17@googlegroups.com> > ReplyTo: september17@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? > Yes, yes, yes. Endorse. > > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:55 PM, <bf0189@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Excellent idea. >> >> On , Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: >> > That's $300-600 for the 3 tickets combined, not for each ticket. With >> > 700 arrested, that's $21K to $42K, plus 80 arrested the week before, which >> > could be anywhere from $8K up, depending on how many tickets were given. >> > That's a lot of money but doable given the results of previous fundraising, >> > especially stretched out over two and a half months to raise the money. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Doug Singsen dougsingsen@gmail.com> >> > wrote:
>> > >> > >> > Can we start one? I think that everybody who was arrested got at least 3 >> > tickets, which could easily run $300-600 each, which many of us can't >> > afford. Can we start a legal defense fund to pay for these fines? We have >> > been able to raise money so quickly, I think we could raise the entire >> > amount before our desk appearances in December. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Doug S >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > -> J.A. Myerson > http://www.jamyerson.com > 347.688.0241 >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of shaista husain september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? Sunday, October 02, 2011 7:39:06 PM
Thanks Doug,I whole heartedly agree with you. We should put up a strong legal fight to revoke these fines esp for future protests, as this Occupation grows, more people will be arrested fined and NYPD buys more pepper spray riot gear etc. It must be legally fought early, this is the first major arrest. We need a legal victory against the NYPD. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > I think we should also try to get the fines revoked, but we probably won't > know if that will work or not until December, when we have to appear before > a court, so we should start collecting money now just in case. We can also > use the money to pay our lawyers' fees. We might have a case that NYPD lured > us onto the bridge, but there's no doubt that we were, in fact, blocking > traffic, which is the basis for the fines, so if we can't win the entrapment > argument we will probably have to pay. > > Doug > > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:25 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Dear GA, is there any way to really make the NYPD detract these fines, >> should we just start raising money for those arrested without first >> putting up a fight about this in the PRESS and embarassing and shaming >> the police dept for these unjust and illegal fines. This fines are >> preposterous, and if enough people get arrested they are making money >> off our protest. Thats all it is, it will stop people from protesting >> if we do not at least try to win the battle against these fines. >> >> On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 6:08 PM, <lisajensky@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Totally agree. >> > >> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: "J.A. Myerson" <jesse.myerson@gmail.com> >> > Sender: september17@googlegroups.com >> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 17:57:33 -0400 >> > To: <september17@googlegroups.com> >> > ReplyTo: september17@googlegroups.com >> > Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? >> > Yes, yes, yes. Endorse. >> > >> > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:55 PM, <bf0189@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> Excellent idea. >> >> >> >> On , Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > That's $300-600 for the 3 tickets combined, not for each ticket. With >> >> > 700 arrested, that's $21K to $42K, plus 80 arrested the week before, >> >> > which >> >> > could be anywhere from $8K up, depending on how many tickets were
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >
>> > given. >> > That's a lot of money but doable given the results of previous >> > fundraising, >> > especially stretched out over two and a half months to raise the >> > money. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Doug Singsen dougsingsen@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > Can we start one? I think that everybody who was arrested got at >> > least 3 >> > tickets, which could easily run $300-600 each, which many of us can't >> > afford. Can we start a legal defense fund to pay for these fines? We >> > have >> > been able to raise money so quickly, I think we could raise the >> > entire >> > amount before our desk appearances in December. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Doug S >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > -> J.A. Myerson > http://www.jamyerson.com > 347.688.0241 >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of grimwomyn september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? Sunday, October 02, 2011 7:40:52 PM
And also as nyc does, so will the rest of the country.... it would be great to have the lawyers at our disposal to fight these tix. On Oct 2, 2011 7:39 PM, "shaista husain" <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Doug,I whole heartedly agree with you. > We should put up a strong legal fight to revoke these fines esp for > future protests, as this Occupation grows, more people will be > arrested fined and NYPD buys more pepper spray riot gear etc. It must > be legally fought early, this is the first major arrest. We need a > legal victory against the NYPD. > > > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: >> I think we should also try to get the fines revoked, but we probably won't >> know if that will work or not until December, when we have to appear before >> a court, so we should start collecting money now just in case. We can also >> use the money to pay our lawyers' fees. We might have a case that NYPD lured >> us onto the bridge, but there's no doubt that we were, in fact, blocking >> traffic, which is the basis for the fines, so if we can't win the entrapment >> argument we will probably have to pay. >> >> Doug >> >> On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:25 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Dear GA, is there any way to really make the NYPD detract these fines, >>> should we just start raising money for those arrested without first >>> putting up a fight about this in the PRESS and embarassing and shaming >>> the police dept for these unjust and illegal fines. This fines are >>> preposterous, and if enough people get arrested they are making money >>> off our protest. Thats all it is, it will stop people from protesting >>> if we do not at least try to win the battle against these fines. >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 6:08 PM, <lisajensky@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > Totally agree. >>> > >>> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >>> > >>> > ________________________________ >>> > From: "J.A. Myerson" <jesse.myerson@gmail.com> >>> > Sender: september17@googlegroups.com >>> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 17:57:33 -0400 >>> > To: <september17@googlegroups.com> >>> > ReplyTo: september17@googlegroups.com >>> > Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees?
>>> > Yes, yes, yes. Endorse. >>> > >>> > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:55 PM, <bf0189@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Excellent idea. >>> >> >>> >> On , Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> > That's $300-600 for the 3 tickets combined, not for each ticket. With >>> >> > 700 arrested, that's $21K to $42K, plus 80 arrested the week before, >>> >> > which >>> >> > could be anywhere from $8K up, depending on how many tickets were >>> >> > given. >>> >> > That's a lot of money but doable given the results of previous >>> >> > fundraising, >>> >> > especially stretched out over two and a half months to raise the >>> >> > money. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Doug Singsen dougsingsen@gmail.com> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Can we start one? I think that everybody who was arrested got at >>> >> > least 3 >>> >> > tickets, which could easily run $300-600 each, which many of us can't >>> >> > afford. Can we start a legal defense fund to pay for these fines? We >>> >> > have >>> >> > been able to raise money so quickly, I think we could raise the >>> >> > entire >>> >> > amount before our desk appearances in December. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Doug S >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ->>> > J.A. Myerson >>> > http://www.jamyerson.com >>> > 347.688.0241 >>> > >> >>
Can someone from the finance and/or legal teams set this up? Sent from my phone On Oct 2, 2011 6:08 PM, <lisajensky@gmail.com> wrote: Totally agree. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From: "J.A. Myerson" <jesse.myerson@gmail.com> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 17:57:33 -0400 To: <september17@googlegroups.com> ReplyTo: september17@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? Yes, yes, yes. Endorse. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:55 PM, <bf0189@gmail.com> wrote: Excellent idea. On , Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > That's $300-600 for the 3 tickets combined, not for each ticket. With 700 arrested, that's $21K to $42K, plus 80 arrested the week before, which could be anywhere from $8K up, depending on how many tickets were given. That's a lot of money but doable given the results of previous fundraising, especially stretched out over two and a half months to raise the money. > > > > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Doug Singsen dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Can we start one? I think that everybody who was arrested got at least 3 tickets, which could easily run $300-600 each, which many of us can't afford. Can we start a legal defense fund to pay for these fines? We have been able to raise money so quickly, I think we could raise the entire amount before our desk appearances in December. > > > > > Doug S > >
> > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Matthew Presto september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? Sunday, October 02, 2011 9:48:36 PM
I'm on the legal team. Foremost we will be working hard with lawyers with the hope that no one should pay any fines. But, we will also be preparing for covering needed costs by setting up a legal fund shortly. The legal team doesn't have a set meeting tomorrow, but I'll make that information available as soon as we determine it. As an aside, not that bail is an issue (yet), I should also note that from the GA on 9/28, the following proposal reached consensus: "In the rare event that someone needs bail because they were protesting or arrested in this square and its occupation, then we would provide bail money from the general funds. If it exceeds $1000, they will bring that to the GA."
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: Can someone from the finance and/or legal teams set this up? Sent from my phone On Oct 2, 2011 6:08 PM, <lisajensky@gmail.com> wrote: Totally agree. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From: "J.A. Myerson" <jesse.myerson@gmail.com> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 17:57:33 -0400 To: <september17@googlegroups.com> ReplyTo: september17@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? Yes, yes, yes. Endorse. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:55 PM, <bf0189@gmail.com> wrote: Excellent idea. On , Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > That's $300-600 for the 3 tickets combined, not for each ticket. With 700 arrested, that's $21K to $42K, plus 80 arrested the week before, which could be anywhere from $8K up, depending on how many tickets were given. That's a lot of money but doable given the results of previous fundraising, especially stretched out over two and a half months to raise the money. > > > > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Doug Singsen dougsingsen@gmail.com>
wrote: > > > Can we start one? I think that everybody who was arrested got at least 3 tickets, which could easily run $300-600 each, which many of us can't afford. Can we start a legal defense fund to pay for these fines? We have been able to raise money so quickly, I think we could raise the entire amount before our desk appearances in December. > > > > > Doug S > > > > >
Awesome, thanks! On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Matthew Presto <matthew.presto@gmail.com> wrote: I'm on the legal team. Foremost we will be working hard with lawyers with the hope that no one should pay any fines. But, we will also be preparing for covering needed costs by setting up a legal fund shortly. The legal team doesn't have a set meeting tomorrow, but I'll make that information available as soon as we determine it. As an aside, not that bail is an issue (yet), I should also note that from the GA on 9/28, the following proposal reached consensus: "In the rare event that someone needs bail because they were protesting or arrested in this square and its occupation, then we would provide bail money from the general funds. If it exceeds $1000, they will bring that to the GA."
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: Can someone from the finance and/or legal teams set this up? Sent from my phone On Oct 2, 2011 6:08 PM, <lisajensky@gmail.com> wrote: Totally agree. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From: "J.A. Myerson" <jesse.myerson@gmail.com> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 17:57:33 -0400 To: <september17@googlegroups.com> ReplyTo: september17@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? Yes, yes, yes. Endorse. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:55 PM, <bf0189@gmail.com> wrote: Excellent idea. On , Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > That's $300-600 for the 3 tickets combined, not for each ticket. With 700 arrested, that's $21K to $42K, plus 80 arrested the week before, which could be anywhere from $8K up, depending on how many tickets were given.
That's a lot of money but doable given the results of previous fundraising, especially stretched out over two and a half months to raise the money. > > > > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Doug Singsen dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Can we start one? I think that everybody who was arrested got at least 3 tickets, which could easily run $300-600 each, which many of us can't afford. Can we start a legal defense fund to pay for these fines? We have been able to raise money so quickly, I think we could raise the entire amount before our desk appearances in December. > > > > > Doug S > > > > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of gail zawacki september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: Start a legal fund for arrestees? Sunday, October 02, 2011 5:57:05 PM
I gave to the newspaper and other efforts and would definitely contribute (my tiny amount I can afford) to legal defense... send it out! On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:55 PM, <bf0189@gmail.com> wrote: Excellent idea. On , Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > That's $300-600 for the 3 tickets combined, not for each ticket. With 700 arrested, that's $21K to $42K, plus 80 arrested the week before, which could be anywhere from $8K up, depending on how many tickets were given. That's a lot of money but doable given the results of previous fundraising, especially stretched out over two and a half months to raise the money. > > > > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Doug Singsen dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Can we start one? I think that everybody who was arrested got at least 3 tickets, which could easily run $300-600 each, which many of us can't afford. Can we start a legal defense fund to pay for these fines? We have been able to raise money so quickly, I think we could raise the entire amount before our desk appearances in December. > > > > > Doug S > > > > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Winter Siroco september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Re: URGENT: Does anyone have... Sunday, October 02, 2011 1:37:34 PM
There is also this Daily News video " NYPD video: Occupy Wall Street protesters at Brooklyn Bridge
warned they could be arrested"
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/10/02/2011-1002_nypd_video_shows_cops_warning_occupy_wall_street_protesters_they_could_be_arrest.html#ixzz1ZeAnzo26 Cesar
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 12:44 PM, hextic <willgauss@gmail.com> wrote: I have taken the Youtube video and downloaded it, and stored it in several secure locations. Let me know if you need it. On Oct 2, 10:11 am, "J.A. Myerson" <jesse.myer...@gmail.com> wrote: > ...footage of police complicity as protesters entered the roadway? This > looks like it will prove critical. > > JAM > > -> J.A. Myersonhttp://www.jamyerson.com > 347.688.0241
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of lisajensky@gmail.com ows_sept17 Re: [september17discuss] Re: Wall Street is War Street: Antiwar rallyon Sat, Oct 15 moved to OWS Tuesday, October 04, 2011 4:37:58 PM
This is great! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From: Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 16:31:37 -0400 To: <september17@googlegroups.com> ReplyTo: september17@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Wall Street is War Street: Antiwar rally on Sat, Oct 15 moved to OWS UNAC is also an endorser/participant in the DC occupation. On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 4:29 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote: Great how show of support from UNAC On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > BTW, this is marking the tenth anniversary of the invasion of Afghanistan, > which is also the start date for the October2011 occupation in Washington, > DC, which starts on Thursday. The NYC march was moved back a week from the > anniversary date so it wouldn't conflict with the DC occupation. > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> It was originally going to be targeted at 3 embassies in Midtown, but the >> United National Antiwar Committee (UNAC) voted to move it downtown. >> >> Wall Street Is War Street >> >> On the 10thAnniversary of U.S. War in Afghanistan >> >> NO to Endless WARS! >> >> Sat. OCT. 15, >> >> Noon Rally at Wall Street >> >> March to Occupy Wall Street Encampment >> >> Liberty & Broadway >> >> >> >> Oct. 15 is a day of nationally coordinated antiwar actions in cities
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> NY >> >> >> >> >> >> > >
across the U.S., the 10thanniversary of the massively destructive and criminal U.S. war on Afghanistan.
When the U.S. government began its attack on Afghanistan 10 years ago, President Bush called it a war on terror. It was followed by 8 years of U.S. war Iraq and now war in Libya and drone wars on Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and Sudan under Pres. Obama. These are all wars for oil, resources and markets in the interests of corporate power. At the same time, the U.S. government is carrying out attacks on working people within the U.S., cutting back on health care and education while bailing out the Wall St. banks and insurance companies. Every time people call for money for social services, we are told there is no money, but the government always finds money for its wars. It is increasing repression on Muslims, on Black and Latino youth and on those who protest, as the FBI raids on anti-war demonstrators and the NYPD attacks on the peaceful Occupy Wall St. demonstrators show. Join us in a march to demand an end to U.S. wars in Afghanistan & Iraq, an end to U.S. aid to Israel, and an end to U.S. bombing and destruction in Libya and an end to the growing repression at home. We NEED Jobs, Health Care & Education NOT War, Racism & Repression -------------------------------Followed by a4 pm Solidarity Meetingwith Carlos Montes,a speaker from the Victor Toro Defense Committee, immigrant rights and antiwar activists facing government attack and phony charges,and Cyrus McGoldrick from the Council on American Islamic Relations. At Judson Memorial Church, Washington Square South & Thompson St., NYC Called by: United National Antiwar Coalition (UNAC),www.UNACpeace.org
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of gabjoh2@gmail.com september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Salsa is offering their CRM tool Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:54:26 PM
This is wonderful. Would like to help. Have semi-related experience. --glj Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry -----Original Message----From: grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:26:05 To: <september17@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: september17@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Salsa is offering their CRM tool If I could-- I would like to volunteer to take this on... I am an information professional and have worked with fundraising databases for over 10 years and as the point person for the Occupy Media Project (Occupied WSJ) I am in a great position to make sure that information is shared and available for all across the board as the movement grows. Let me know what you would like to do, looking forward to the data crunching and analysis and system building! best-grim On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Charles Lenchner <clenchner@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey all... > I just joined the list and plan to introduce myself. But I learned something > and wanted to get it in the right hands - it's unclear what that means! > Salsa is a Constituent Relationship Manager. It is used by political groups > and nonprofits on the progressive side of the fence. They would like to > offer use if this product to Occupy Wall Street for free. It's a great tool > that I'm familiar with - it does email blasting, list building, integrates > with fundraising pages, signups, advocacy actions, letters to the editor, > events management, etc. > Folks might have various opinions about using this. My question is: which > group or committee is qualified to make a decision on such a thing on behalf > of 'Occupy Wall Street'? > I beg forgiveness if this was discussed previously - the NYCGA site didn't > include any mention of it that I could find, so it seemed a bit like an > orphan issue. > Thanks in advance, > Charles Lenchner > www.organizing20.org >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of grimwomyn september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Salsa is offering their CRM tool Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:59:22 PM
please forward the contact information when you can. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:58 PM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> wrote: > Terrific-- so if it is okay with all I would like to take this project > on with Gabriel-- for it to mainly sit with Gabriel, but i will give > consult and advice and make sure all is transparent across the board. > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:52 PM, <gabjoh2@gmail.com> wrote: >> This is wonderful. Would like to help. Have semi-related experience. >> --glj >> >> Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry >> >> -----Original Message---->> From: grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> >> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com >> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:26:05 >> To: <september17@googlegroups.com> >> Reply-To: september17@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Salsa is offering their CRM tool >> >> If I could-- I would like to volunteer to take this on... >> >> I am an information professional and have worked with fundraising >> databases for over 10 years and as the point person for the Occupy >> Media Project (Occupied WSJ) I am in a great position to make sure >> that information is shared and available for all across the board as >> the movement grows. >> >> Let me know what you would like to do, looking forward to the data >> crunching and analysis and system building! >> >> best-grim >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Charles Lenchner <clenchner@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hey all... >>> I just joined the list and plan to introduce myself. But I learned something >>> and wanted to get it in the right hands - it's unclear what that means! >>> Salsa is a Constituent Relationship Manager. It is used by political groups >>> and nonprofits on the progressive side of the fence. They would like to >>> offer use if this product to Occupy Wall Street for free. It's a great tool >>> that I'm familiar with - it does email blasting, list building, integrates >>> with fundraising pages, signups, advocacy actions, letters to the editor, >>> events management, etc. >>> Folks might have various opinions about using this. My question is: which >>> group or committee is qualified to make a decision on such a thing on behalf >>> of 'Occupy Wall Street'? >>> I beg forgiveness if this was discussed previously - the NYCGA site didn't >>> include any mention of it that I could find, so it seemed a bit like an >>> orphan issue. >>> Thanks in advance, >>> Charles Lenchner >>> www.organizing20.org
>>> >> >
Terrific-- so if it is okay with all I would like to take this project on with Gabriel-- for it to mainly sit with Gabriel, but i will give consult and advice and make sure all is transparent across the board. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:52 PM, <gabjoh2@gmail.com> wrote: > This is wonderful. Would like to help. Have semi-related experience. > --glj > > Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----> From: grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> > Sender: september17@googlegroups.com > Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:26:05 > To: <september17@googlegroups.com> > Reply-To: september17@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Salsa is offering their CRM tool > > If I could-- I would like to volunteer to take this on... > > I am an information professional and have worked with fundraising > databases for over 10 years and as the point person for the Occupy > Media Project (Occupied WSJ) I am in a great position to make sure > that information is shared and available for all across the board as > the movement grows. > > Let me know what you would like to do, looking forward to the data > crunching and analysis and system building! > > best-grim > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Charles Lenchner <clenchner@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hey all... >> I just joined the list and plan to introduce myself. But I learned something >> and wanted to get it in the right hands - it's unclear what that means! >> Salsa is a Constituent Relationship Manager. It is used by political groups >> and nonprofits on the progressive side of the fence. They would like to >> offer use if this product to Occupy Wall Street for free. It's a great tool >> that I'm familiar with - it does email blasting, list building, integrates >> with fundraising pages, signups, advocacy actions, letters to the editor, >> events management, etc. >> Folks might have various opinions about using this. My question is: which >> group or committee is qualified to make a decision on such a thing on behalf >> of 'Occupy Wall Street'? >> I beg forgiveness if this was discussed previously - the NYCGA site didn't >> include any mention of it that I could find, so it seemed a bit like an >> orphan issue. >> Thanks in advance, >> Charles Lenchner >> www.organizing20.org >> >
Agreed-- we would not use the tools of the master to dismantle the house, but to grow our support.... the real outreach is happening right now over dinner tables and at PTA meetings... as it should.... it is not about what we are doing here but the conversations that are happening outside of nyc that really matter right now and a CRM suite that can empower us to reach out to influencers and connectors across America, can only be good and help us move forward so that the conversation includes every single person at the table... the 99 percent. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote: > I trust Grim and Gabriel to know what they're doing, but would like to raise > a caveat that we not rely too heavily on a CRM suite as outreach for a > movement that's against basically the whole mindset of big business and big > money politics. To quote an old addage, "the master's tools cannot > dismantle the master's house". > > Solidarity, > Jon > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:59 PM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> please forward the contact information when you can. >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:58 PM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Terrific-- so if it is okay with all I would like to take this project >> > on with Gabriel-- for it to mainly sit with Gabriel, but i will give >> > consult and advice and make sure all is transparent across the board. >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:52 PM, <gabjoh2@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> This is wonderful. Would like to help. Have semi-related experience. >> >> --glj >> >> >> >> Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry >> >> >> >> -----Original Message---->> >> From: grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> >> >> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com >> >> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:26:05 >> >> To: <september17@googlegroups.com> >> >> Reply-To: september17@googlegroups.com >> >> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Salsa is offering their CRM tool >> >> >> >> If I could-- I would like to volunteer to take this on... >> >> >> >> I am an information professional and have worked with fundraising >> >> databases for over 10 years and as the point person for the Occupy >> >> Media Project (Occupied WSJ) I am in a great position to make sure >> >> that information is shared and available for all across the board as >> >> the movement grows. >> >> >> >> Let me know what you would like to do, looking forward to the data >> >> crunching and analysis and system building!
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >
>> >> best-grim >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Charles Lenchner <clenchner@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> Hey all... >>> I just joined the list and plan to introduce myself. But I learned >>> something >>> and wanted to get it in the right hands - it's unclear what that >>> means! >>> Salsa is a Constituent Relationship Manager. It is used by political >>> groups >>> and nonprofits on the progressive side of the fence. They would like >>> to >>> offer use if this product to Occupy Wall Street for free. It's a great >>> tool >>> that I'm familiar with - it does email blasting, list building, >>> integrates >>> with fundraising pages, signups, advocacy actions, letters to the >>> editor, >>> events management, etc. >>> Folks might have various opinions about using this. My question is: >>> which >>> group or committee is qualified to make a decision on such a thing on >>> behalf >>> of 'Occupy Wall Street'? >>> I beg forgiveness if this was discussed previously - the NYCGA site >>> didn't >>> include any mention of it that I could find, so it seemed a bit like >>> an >>> orphan issue. >>> Thanks in advance, >>> Charles Lenchner >>> www.organizing20.org >>> >> >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Jon Good september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Salsa is offering their CRM tool Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:11:22 PM
I trust Grim and Gabriel to know what they're doing, but would like to raise a caveat that we not rely too heavily on a CRM suite as outreach for a movement that's against basically the whole mindset of big business and big money politics. To quote an old addage, "the master's tools cannot dismantle the master's house". Solidarity, Jon On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:59 PM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> wrote: please forward the contact information when you can. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:58 PM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> wrote: > Terrific-- so if it is okay with all I would like to take this project > on with Gabriel-- for it to mainly sit with Gabriel, but i will give > consult and advice and make sure all is transparent across the board. > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:52 PM, <gabjoh2@gmail.com> wrote: >> This is wonderful. Would like to help. Have semi-related experience. >> --glj >> >> Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry >> >> -----Original Message---->> From: grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> >> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com >> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:26:05 >> To: <september17@googlegroups.com> >> Reply-To: september17@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Salsa is offering their CRM tool >> >> If I could-- I would like to volunteer to take this on... >> >> I am an information professional and have worked with fundraising >> databases for over 10 years and as the point person for the Occupy >> Media Project (Occupied WSJ) I am in a great position to make sure >> that information is shared and available for all across the board as >> the movement grows. >> >> Let me know what you would like to do, looking forward to the data >> crunching and analysis and system building! >> >> best-grim >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Charles Lenchner <clenchner@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hey all... >>> I just joined the list and plan to introduce myself. But I learned something
>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >
and wanted to get it in the right hands - it's unclear what that means! Salsa is a Constituent Relationship Manager. It is used by political groups and nonprofits on the progressive side of the fence. They would like to offer use if this product to Occupy Wall Street for free. It's a great tool that I'm familiar with - it does email blasting, list building, integrates with fundraising pages, signups, advocacy actions, letters to the editor, events management, etc. Folks might have various opinions about using this. My question is: which group or committee is qualified to make a decision on such a thing on behalf of 'Occupy Wall Street'? I beg forgiveness if this was discussed previously - the NYCGA site didn't include any mention of it that I could find, so it seemed a bit like an orphan issue. Thanks in advance, Charles Lenchner www.organizing20.org
What do you mean? On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Will Gauss <willgauss@gmail.com> wrote: > Be careful of co-opting. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 5, 2011, at 4:59 PM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> wrote: > >> please forward the contact information when you can. >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:58 PM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Terrific-- so if it is okay with all I would like to take this project >>> on with Gabriel-- for it to mainly sit with Gabriel, but i will give >>> consult and advice and make sure all is transparent across the board. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:52 PM, <gabjoh2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> This is wonderful. Would like to help. Have semi-related experience. >>>> --glj >>>> >>>> Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry >>>> >>>> -----Original Message---->>>> From: grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> >>>> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com >>>> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:26:05 >>>> To: <september17@googlegroups.com> >>>> Reply-To: september17@googlegroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Salsa is offering their CRM tool >>>> >>>> If I could-- I would like to volunteer to take this on... >>>> >>>> I am an information professional and have worked with fundraising >>>> databases for over 10 years and as the point person for the Occupy >>>> Media Project (Occupied WSJ) I am in a great position to make sure >>>> that information is shared and available for all across the board as >>>> the movement grows. >>>> >>>> Let me know what you would like to do, looking forward to the data >>>> crunching and analysis and system building! >>>> >>>> best-grim >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Charles Lenchner <clenchner@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Hey all... >>>>> I just joined the list and plan to introduce myself. But I learned something >>>>> and wanted to get it in the right hands - it's unclear what that means! >>>>> Salsa is a Constituent Relationship Manager. It is used by political groups >>>>> and nonprofits on the progressive side of the fence. They would like to >>>>> offer use if this product to Occupy Wall Street for free. It's a great tool >>>>> that I'm familiar with - it does email blasting, list building, integrates >>>>> with fundraising pages, signups, advocacy actions, letters to the editor, >>>>> events management, etc.
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >
Folks might have various opinions about using this. My question is: which group or committee is qualified to make a decision on such a thing on behalf of 'Occupy Wall Street'? I beg forgiveness if this was discussed previously - the NYCGA site didn't include any mention of it that I could find, so it seemed a bit like an orphan issue. Thanks in advance, Charles Lenchner www.organizing20.org
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Will Gauss september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Salsa is offering their CRM tool Wednesday, October 05, 2011 7:48:57 PM
Be careful of co-opting. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 5, 2011, at 4:59 PM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> wrote: > please forward the contact information when you can. > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:58 PM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> wrote: >> Terrific-- so if it is okay with all I would like to take this project >> on with Gabriel-- for it to mainly sit with Gabriel, but i will give >> consult and advice and make sure all is transparent across the board. >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:52 PM, <gabjoh2@gmail.com> wrote: >>> This is wonderful. Would like to help. Have semi-related experience. >>> --glj >>> >>> Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry >>> >>> -----Original Message---->>> From: grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> >>> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com >>> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:26:05 >>> To: <september17@googlegroups.com> >>> Reply-To: september17@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Salsa is offering their CRM tool >>> >>> If I could-- I would like to volunteer to take this on... >>> >>> I am an information professional and have worked with fundraising >>> databases for over 10 years and as the point person for the Occupy >>> Media Project (Occupied WSJ) I am in a great position to make sure >>> that information is shared and available for all across the board as >>> the movement grows. >>> >>> Let me know what you would like to do, looking forward to the data >>> crunching and analysis and system building! >>> >>> best-grim >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Charles Lenchner <clenchner@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Hey all... >>>> I just joined the list and plan to introduce myself. But I learned something >>>> and wanted to get it in the right hands - it's unclear what that means! >>>> Salsa is a Constituent Relationship Manager. It is used by political groups >>>> and nonprofits on the progressive side of the fence. They would like to >>>> offer use if this product to Occupy Wall Street for free. It's a great tool >>>> that I'm familiar with - it does email blasting, list building, integrates >>>> with fundraising pages, signups, advocacy actions, letters to the editor, >>>> events management, etc. >>>> Folks might have various opinions about using this. My question is: which >>>> group or committee is qualified to make a decision on such a thing on behalf >>>> of 'Occupy Wall Street'?
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>
I beg forgiveness if this was discussed previously - the NYCGA site didn't include any mention of it that I could find, so it seemed a bit like an orphan issue. Thanks in advance, Charles Lenchner www.organizing20.org
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Jon Good september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Salsa is offering their CRM tool Wednesday, October 05, 2011 10:44:16 PM
+1 to that. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 8:20 PM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> wrote: Agreed-- we would not use the tools of the master to dismantle the house, but to grow our support.... the real outreach is happening right now over dinner tables and at PTA meetings... as it should.... it is not about what we are doing here but the conversations that are happening outside of nyc that really matter right now and a CRM suite that can empower us to reach out to influencers and connectors across America, can only be good and help us move forward so that the conversation includes every single person at the table... the 99 percent. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote: > I trust Grim and Gabriel to know what they're doing, but would like to raise > a caveat that we not rely too heavily on a CRM suite as outreach for a > movement that's against basically the whole mindset of big business and big > money politics. To quote an old addage, "the master's tools cannot > dismantle the master's house". > > Solidarity, > Jon > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:59 PM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> please forward the contact information when you can. >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:58 PM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Terrific-- so if it is okay with all I would like to take this project >> > on with Gabriel-- for it to mainly sit with Gabriel, but i will give >> > consult and advice and make sure all is transparent across the board. >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:52 PM, <gabjoh2@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> This is wonderful. Would like to help. Have semi-related experience. >> >> --glj >> >> >> >> Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry >> >> >> >> -----Original Message---->> >> From: grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> >> >> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com >> >> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:26:05 >> >> To: <september17@googlegroups.com> >> >> Reply-To: september17@googlegroups.com >> >> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Salsa is offering their CRM tool >> >> >> >> If I could-- I would like to volunteer to take this on...
>> >> >> >> I am an information professional and have worked with fundraising >> >> databases for over 10 years and as the point person for the Occupy >> >> Media Project (Occupied WSJ) I am in a great position to make sure >> >> that information is shared and available for all across the board as >> >> the movement grows. >> >> >> >> Let me know what you would like to do, looking forward to the data >> >> crunching and analysis and system building! >> >> >> >> best-grim >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Charles Lenchner <clenchner@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >>> Hey all... >> >>> I just joined the list and plan to introduce myself. But I learned >> >>> something >> >>> and wanted to get it in the right hands - it's unclear what that >> >>> means! >> >>> Salsa is a Constituent Relationship Manager. It is used by political >> >>> groups >> >>> and nonprofits on the progressive side of the fence. They would like >> >>> to >> >>> offer use if this product to Occupy Wall Street for free. It's a great >> >>> tool >> >>> that I'm familiar with - it does email blasting, list building, >> >>> integrates >> >>> with fundraising pages, signups, advocacy actions, letters to the >> >>> editor, >> >>> events management, etc. >> >>> Folks might have various opinions about using this. My question is: >> >>> which >> >>> group or committee is qualified to make a decision on such a thing on >> >>> behalf >> >>> of 'Occupy Wall Street'? >> >>> I beg forgiveness if this was discussed previously - the NYCGA site >> >>> didn't >> >>> include any mention of it that I could find, so it seemed a bit like >> >>> an >> >>> orphan issue. >> >>> Thanks in advance, >> >>> Charles Lenchner >> >>> www.organizing20.org >> >>> >> >> >> > > >
If I could-- I would like to volunteer to take this on... I am an information professional and have worked with fundraising databases for over 10 years and as the point person for the Occupy Media Project (Occupied WSJ) I am in a great position to make sure that information is shared and available for all across the board as the movement grows. Let me know what you would like to do, looking forward to the data crunching and analysis and system building! best-grim On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Charles Lenchner <clenchner@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey all... > I just joined the list and plan to introduce myself. But I learned something > and wanted to get it in the right hands - it's unclear what that means! > Salsa is a Constituent Relationship Manager. It is used by political groups > and nonprofits on the progressive side of the fence. They would like to > offer use if this product to Occupy Wall Street for free. It's a great tool > that I'm familiar with - it does email blasting, list building, integrates > with fundraising pages, signups, advocacy actions, letters to the editor, > events management, etc. > Folks might have various opinions about using this. My question is: which > group or committee is qualified to make a decision on such a thing on behalf > of 'Occupy Wall Street'? > I beg forgiveness if this was discussed previously - the NYCGA site didn't > include any mention of it that I could find, so it seemed a bit like an > orphan issue. > Thanks in advance, > Charles Lenchner > www.organizing20.org >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of J.A. Myerson september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Showerings and getting folks into indoor beds. Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:04:11 AM
A woman named Esther who lives nearby came by the other day offering her bathroom for occasional use. Her number is 917.705.3886. JAM On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 6:50 AM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> wrote: i cant lead this effort-- but I can volunteer me space for two girls a night to sleep and shower in On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Lorenzo Serna <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear all, > > I was wondering where we were on getting folks showers and indoor beds. I've > been spending a few days at the encampment and this need keeps coming up for > folks. I know that there was a committee working towards this, but I wasn't > sure how they were progressing, or if there was some way for folks in the > encampment to start taking advantage of the spaces offered. I only bring > this up, because there are a few folks who have come up to me asking about > it, and I wanted to see if I could gather any more information so I could > pass it on. > > > Thank you, > > Lorenzo Serna >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of grimwomyn september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Showerings and getting folks into indoor beds. Tuesday, October 04, 2011 6:50:18 AM
i cant lead this effort-- but I can volunteer me space for two girls a night to sleep and shower in On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Lorenzo Serna <lorenzo.serna@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear all, > > I was wondering where we were on getting folks showers and indoor beds. I've > been spending a few days at the encampment and this need keeps coming up for > folks. I know that there was a committee working towards this, but I wasn't > sure how they were progressing, or if there was some way for folks in the > encampment to start taking advantage of the spaces offered. I only bring > this up, because there are a few folks who have come up to me asking about > it, and I wanted to see if I could gather any more information so I could > pass it on. > > > Thank you, > > Lorenzo Serna >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of gail zawacki september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Sound Permit Tuesday, October 04, 2011 6:22:30 PM
The human mic, which is so patiently and tenderly transmitting different points of view, is one of the most moving things to witness at OWS. It is however, inefficient in larger crowds. On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 5:42 PM, <jemcgloin@verizon.net> wrote:
Here's an article about the power of the human mic. I also think the human mic is part of our magic and I think we should keep it. http://www.thenation.com/blog/163767/we-are-all-human-microphones-now?rel=emailNation
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of grimwomyn september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Start a legal fund for arrestees? Sunday, October 02, 2011 7:38:02 PM
You will not be able to raise funds through kickstarter for this... you would be much better suited just setting u a paypal account for this... people will give, but the link on the front page of occupywallst.org On Oct 2, 2011 5:36 PM, "MAd Hatter" <progressivechange@gmail.com> wrote: > Totally agree. We can do a kickstarter and raise it. Legal committe please > advise, but do so ASAP. > > On Sunday, October 2, 2011, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: >> Can we start one? I think that everybody who was arrested got at least 3 > tickets, which could easily run $300-600 each, which many of us can't > afford. Can we start a legal defense fund to pay for these fines? We have > been able to raise money so quickly, I think we could raise the entire > amount before our desk appearances in December. >> >> Doug S >>
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of MAd Hatter september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Start a legal fund for arrestees? Sunday, October 02, 2011 5:36:58 PM
Totally agree. We can do a kickstarter and raise it. Legal committe please advise, but do so ASAP. On Sunday, October 2, 2011, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > Can we start one? I think that everybody who was arrested got at least 3 tickets, which could easily run $300-600 each, which many of us can't afford. Can we start a legal defense fund to pay for these fines? We have been able to raise money so quickly, I think we could raise the entire amount before our desk appearances in December. > > Doug S >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of lisajensky@gmail.com ows_sept17 Re: [september17discuss] Tactical Suggestion Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:56:49 PM
Agreed! Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----From: shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 13:53:55 To: <september17@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: september17@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Tactical Suggestion This is an excellent statement! On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:52 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: > I love this statement! > > I think individuals should still be allowed to donate, anonymously and/or > with no expectation of reciprocation or branding though. > > justin > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Micah White <micahmwhite@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> We all know the saying: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, >> then they fight you, then you win." >> >> Well, we are in the "they fight you" stage, but it is looking a lot >> different than expected. Instead of hitting us head on, the corporations are >> trying to co-opt us. They are using a "trojan horse" tactic: once they can >> get themselves into a trusted position to speak on behalf of #OWS then they >> can blunt and/or destroy any of our revolutionary possibility. >> >> Never forget that Vodafone tried to claim credit for the Egyptian >> Revolution: >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/03/vodafone-egypt-advert-claims-revolution >> And Coca-Cola put up special advertising to align themselves with the >> revolutionaries of Tahrir Square as well. >> >> Some advertising agencies specialize in launching seemingly >> counter-cultural movements. And they are watching everything we do: >> http://roarmag.org/2011/08/the-revolution-will-not-be-commercialized/ >> >> Another example from something I wrote last year: "The collapsing >> distinction between marketing and activism is revealed in the cautionary >> tale of TckTckTck, a purported climate change organisation with 17 million >> members. Widely hailed as an innovator of digital activism, TckTckTck is a >> project of Havas Worldwide, the world's sixth-largest advertising company. A >> corporation that uses advertising to foment ecologically unsustainable >> overconsumption, Havas bears significant responsibility for the climate >> change TckTckTck decries." >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >
Now, it is more important than ever to be on our guard against those who wish to "speak for us" or "help us". They have an agenda.. they are fighting by playing nice. I propose that GA discuss the following proposal: Proposal: "We believe that corporate money should not be allowed to influence democracy. Therefore, the General Assembly will not accept donations, financial or otherwise, from corporations. Furthermore, we will not allow corporate advertising to be placed on websites affiliated with our occupation. We will resist efforts by corporations to co-opt our movement towards real democracy in America." Stay strong... don't fall for their tricks, Micah
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of grimwomyn september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Tactical Suggestion Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:58:03 PM
thirded! who can present to the GA? On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:53 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote: > This is an excellent statement! > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:52 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: >> I love this statement! >> >> I think individuals should still be allowed to donate, anonymously and/or >> with no expectation of reciprocation or branding though. >> >> justin >> >> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Micah White <micahmwhite@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> We all know the saying: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, >>> then they fight you, then you win." >>> >>> Well, we are in the "they fight you" stage, but it is looking a lot >>> different than expected. Instead of hitting us head on, the corporations are >>> trying to co-opt us. They are using a "trojan horse" tactic: once they can >>> get themselves into a trusted position to speak on behalf of #OWS then they >>> can blunt and/or destroy any of our revolutionary possibility. >>> >>> Never forget that Vodafone tried to claim credit for the Egyptian >>> Revolution: >>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/03/vodafone-egypt-advert-claims-revolution >>> And Coca-Cola put up special advertising to align themselves with the >>> revolutionaries of Tahrir Square as well. >>> >>> Some advertising agencies specialize in launching seemingly >>> counter-cultural movements. And they are watching everything we do: >>> http://roarmag.org/2011/08/the-revolution-will-not-be-commercialized/ >>> >>> Another example from something I wrote last year: "The collapsing >>> distinction between marketing and activism is revealed in the cautionary >>> tale of TckTckTck, a purported climate change organisation with 17 million >>> members. Widely hailed as an innovator of digital activism, TckTckTck is a >>> project of Havas Worldwide, the world's sixth-largest advertising company. A >>> corporation that uses advertising to foment ecologically unsustainable >>> overconsumption, Havas bears significant responsibility for the climate >>> change TckTckTck decries." >>> >>> Now, it is more important than ever to be on our guard against those who >>> wish to "speak for us" or "help us". They have an agenda.. they are fighting >>> by playing nice. >>> >>> I propose that GA discuss the following proposal: >>> >>> Proposal: "We believe that corporate money should not be allowed to >>> influence democracy. Therefore, the General Assembly will not accept
>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >
donations, financial or otherwise, from corporations. Furthermore, we will not allow corporate advertising to be placed on websites affiliated with our occupation. We will resist efforts by corporations to co-opt our movement towards real democracy in America." Stay strong... don't fall for their tricks, Micah
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of shaista husain september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Tactical Suggestion Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:53:59 PM
This is an excellent statement! On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:52 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: > I love this statement! > > I think individuals should still be allowed to donate, anonymously and/or > with no expectation of reciprocation or branding though. > > justin > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Micah White <micahmwhite@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> We all know the saying: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, >> then they fight you, then you win." >> >> Well, we are in the "they fight you" stage, but it is looking a lot >> different than expected. Instead of hitting us head on, the corporations are >> trying to co-opt us. They are using a "trojan horse" tactic: once they can >> get themselves into a trusted position to speak on behalf of #OWS then they >> can blunt and/or destroy any of our revolutionary possibility. >> >> Never forget that Vodafone tried to claim credit for the Egyptian >> Revolution: >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/03/vodafone-egypt-advert-claims-revolution >> And Coca-Cola put up special advertising to align themselves with the >> revolutionaries of Tahrir Square as well. >> >> Some advertising agencies specialize in launching seemingly >> counter-cultural movements. And they are watching everything we do: >> http://roarmag.org/2011/08/the-revolution-will-not-be-commercialized/ >> >> Another example from something I wrote last year: "The collapsing >> distinction between marketing and activism is revealed in the cautionary >> tale of TckTckTck, a purported climate change organisation with 17 million >> members. Widely hailed as an innovator of digital activism, TckTckTck is a >> project of Havas Worldwide, the world's sixth-largest advertising company. A >> corporation that uses advertising to foment ecologically unsustainable >> overconsumption, Havas bears significant responsibility for the climate >> change TckTckTck decries." >> >> Now, it is more important than ever to be on our guard against those who >> wish to "speak for us" or "help us". They have an agenda.. they are fighting >> by playing nice. >> >> I propose that GA discuss the following proposal: >> >> Proposal: "We believe that corporate money should not be allowed to >> influence democracy. Therefore, the General Assembly will not accept >> donations, financial or otherwise, from corporations. Furthermore, we will >> not allow corporate advertising to be placed on websites affiliated with our >> occupation. We will resist efforts by corporations to co-opt our movement
>> towards real democracy in America." >> >> Stay strong... don't fall for their tricks, >> >> Micah > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of J Wedes september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] URGENT: Does anyone have... Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:26:22 AM
Tweeted ur request. -justin On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:20 AM, J.A. Myerson <jesse.myerson@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks. If there's more, send it along. Different angles, whatever. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Matthew Bralow <mbralow@gmail.com> wrote: winter siricos vid.. about 40 secs into it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fockzr7rXys On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Jackie DiSalvo <jdisalvo@nyc.rr.com> wrote: > See winter siricos post a few minutes ago for a youtube of cops leading > demonstrators on the bridge > > > > ________________________________ > > From: september17@googlegroups.com [mailto:september17@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of J.A. Myerson > Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:12 AM > To: september17@googlegroups.com > Subject: [september17discuss] URGENT: Does anyone have... > > > > ...footage of police complicity as protesters entered the roadway? This > looks like it will prove critical. > > > > JAM > > > > -> J.A. Myerson > > http://www.jamyerson.com > > 347.688.0241 > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Matthew Bralow september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] URGENT: Does anyone have... Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:26:15 AM
winter siricos vid.. about 40 secs into it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fockzr7rXys On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Jackie DiSalvo <jdisalvo@nyc.rr.com> wrote: > See winter siricos post a few minutes ago for a youtube of cops leading > demonstrators on the bridge > > > > ________________________________ > > From: september17@googlegroups.com [mailto:september17@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of J.A. Myerson > Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:12 AM > To: september17@googlegroups.com > Subject: [september17discuss] URGENT: Does anyone have... > > > > ...footage of police complicity as protesters entered the roadway? This > looks like it will prove critical. > > > > JAM > > > > -> J.A. Myerson > > http://www.jamyerson.com > > 347.688.0241 > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of J.A. Myerson september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] URGENT: Does anyone have... Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:20:40 AM
Thanks. If there's more, send it along. Different angles, whatever. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Matthew Bralow <mbralow@gmail.com> wrote: winter siricos vid.. about 40 secs into it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fockzr7rXys On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Jackie DiSalvo <jdisalvo@nyc.rr.com> wrote: > See winter siricos post a few minutes ago for a youtube of cops leading > demonstrators on the bridge > > > > ________________________________ > > From: september17@googlegroups.com [mailto:september17@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of J.A. Myerson > Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:12 AM > To: september17@googlegroups.com > Subject: [september17discuss] URGENT: Does anyone have... > > > > ...footage of police complicity as protesters entered the roadway? This > looks like it will prove critical. > > > > JAM > > > > -> J.A. Myerson > > http://www.jamyerson.com > > 347.688.0241 > >

september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Winter Siroco september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] URGENT: Does anyone have... Sunday, October 02, 2011 12:02:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdIv5teKJB4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fockzr7rXys
Justin, between these two you have the full story for tweeter Cesar On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:23 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: Tweeted ur request. -justin On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:20 AM, J.A. Myerson <jesse.myerson@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks. If there's more, send it along. Different angles, whatever. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Matthew Bralow <mbralow@gmail.com> wrote: winter siricos vid.. about 40 secs into it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fockzr7rXys On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Jackie DiSalvo <jdisalvo@nyc.rr.com> wrote: > See winter siricos post a few minutes ago for a youtube of cops leading > demonstrators on the bridge > > > > ________________________________ > > From: september17@googlegroups.com [mailto:september17@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of J.A. Myerson > Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:12 AM > To: september17@googlegroups.com > Subject: [september17discuss] URGENT: Does anyone have... > > > > ...footage of police complicity as protesters entered the roadway? This > looks like it will prove critical. > > > > JAM > > > > -Emails come from PST files that were linked to a post on biggovernment.com by Thomas Ryan. PDF by www.teapartycheer.com
> J.A. Myerson > > http://www.jamyerson.com > > 347.688.0241 > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Winter Siroco september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] URGENT: Does anyone have... Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:41:56 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdIv5teKJB4
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:20 AM, J.A. Myerson <jesse.myerson@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks. If there's more, send it along. Different angles, whatever. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Matthew Bralow <mbralow@gmail.com> wrote: winter siricos vid.. about 40 secs into it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fockzr7rXys On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Jackie DiSalvo <jdisalvo@nyc.rr.com> wrote: > See winter siricos post a few minutes ago for a youtube of cops leading > demonstrators on the bridge > > > > ________________________________ > > From: september17@googlegroups.com [mailto:september17@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of J.A. Myerson > Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:12 AM > To: september17@googlegroups.com > Subject: [september17discuss] URGENT: Does anyone have... > > > > ...footage of police complicity as protesters entered the roadway? This > looks like it will prove critical. > > > > JAM > > > > -> J.A. Myerson > > http://www.jamyerson.com > > 347.688.0241 > >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Jackie DiSalvo september17@googlegroups.com RE: [september17discuss] URGENT: Does anyone have... Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:16:19 AM
See winter siricos post a few minutes ago for a youtube of cops leading demonstrators on the bridge
From: september17@googlegroups.com [mailto:september17@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of J.A. Myerson Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:12 AM To: september17@googlegroups.com Subject: [september17discuss] URGENT: Does anyone have...
...footage of police complicity as protesters entered the roadway? This looks like it will prove critical. JAM -J.A. Myerson http://www.jamyerson.com 347.688.0241
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Keegan september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] URGENT: Safer Spaces and Non-violence Monday, October 03, 2011 4:41:24 PM
I don't think the issue is that one particular individual has been asked to leave the space, but that the Safer Spaces Committee subverted the democratic process and caused the biggest tension between occupiers I have seen at Liberty Plaza. We should make sure this does not happen again. As you said Jon, keeping Liberty Plaza safe should be everyone's priority right now, and we should not allow people to bring outside drama into the space. That does not create a safe space, it creates a divided, unsafe space. I feel that if people are acting safe and peaceful within the space, they are welcome. If they are not, they are not. I support peaceful, open dialogue. OWS is proving it can work, and giving me hope. Cheers. -K On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote: Oh, for fuck's sake. PLEASE DO NOT have any of this discussion within Liberty Plaza. It will be an all-singing, all-dancing shit show. There are plenty of public, open spaces (some even nearby the square) that will be less problematic. As Mellow Yellow admits, this issue has torn apart activist circles again and again and again and again. I really think both sides need to walk away, right now. There are thousands of us. No single person is important enough that their physical presence at OWS will make any difference or be integral to the movement. There are plenty of things you can do to help the occupation that do not require you to physically be at Liberty Plaza. Please do those. Please do not turnthis ridiculously convoluted issue into our problem.
On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Mellow Yellow <disorganizecm@gmail.com> wrote: Hi All Amazing and Peaceful people, I am going to propose at tonight's GA (if there is a nycga listserve can someone re-post this there) that the NYC GA become a signatory supporter of the statement on the website below. http://riseabovenyc.org/ Non-police individuals who have a history of violent language, threats and behavior towards myself and other activists were seen at Liberty Plaza Sunday afternoon/evening. I have spoken to many people who witnessed abusive and aggressive language and behavior last night during the GA seeking the expulsion of other individuals who HAVE NOT exhibited violent or abusive behavior at Liberty Plaza. Unfortunately it seems that the majority of the "Safer Spaces" working group is complicit in this behavior within OWS space, and there will also
hopefully be some discussion about working group accountability, for ALL WORKING GROUPS tonight. If any representatives of the Safer Spaces group would like to meet with me at Liberty Plaza at 6pm under the red thing to address these concerns in a non-violent manner, I would really appreciate the chance speak and listen to them regarding the group's actions. Abuse, interpersonal violence and oppression of all forms are serious, and I am not defending abusers. However, survivors and abusers both require support in moving on, either from being a victim or to being held accountable. Accountability and Safer Space are the crux of the Occupation. . PLEASE TAKE THIS INTERNAL THREAT VERY SERIOUSLY, as it is a part of a very divisive and ugly history within the New York City activist/anarchist community. I do not want to see OWS implode from the inside. The Banksters and the State will have an easy time sweeping us away if we get bogged down in violent infighting instead of the civil, horizontal consensus process we have enjoyed thus far. With Sincerity and Peace in my heart, Mellow Yellow @critmasspanic
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Jon Good september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] URGENT: Safer Spaces and Non-violence Monday, October 03, 2011 4:01:30 PM
Oh, for fuck's sake. PLEASE DO NOT have any of this discussion within Liberty Plaza. It will be an all-singing, all-dancing shit show. There are plenty of public, open spaces (some even nearby the square) that will be less problematic. As Mellow Yellow admits, this issue has torn apart activist circles again and again and again and again. I really think both sides need to walk away, right now. There are thousands of us. No single person is important enough that their physical presence at OWS will make any difference or be integral to the movement. There are plenty of things you can do to help the occupation that do not require you to physically be at Liberty Plaza. Please do those. Please do not turnthis ridiculously convoluted issue into our problem.
On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Mellow Yellow <disorganizecm@gmail.com> wrote: Hi All Amazing and Peaceful people, I am going to propose at tonight's GA (if there is a nycga listserve can someone re-post this there) that the NYC GA become a signatory supporter of the statement on the website below. http://riseabovenyc.org/ Non-police individuals who have a history of violent language, threats and behavior towards myself and other activists were seen at Liberty Plaza Sunday afternoon/evening. I have spoken to many people who witnessed abusive and aggressive language and behavior last night during the GA seeking the expulsion of other individuals who HAVE NOT exhibited violent or abusive behavior at Liberty Plaza. Unfortunately it seems that the majority of the "Safer Spaces" working group is complicit in this behavior within OWS space, and there will also hopefully be some discussion about working group accountability, for ALL WORKING GROUPS tonight. If any representatives of the Safer Spaces group would like to meet with me at Liberty Plaza at 6pm under the red thing to address these concerns in a non-violent manner, I would really appreciate the chance speak and listen to them regarding the group's actions. Abuse, inter-personal violence and oppression of all forms are serious, and I am not defending abusers. However, survivors and abusers both require support in moving on, either from being a victim or to being held accountable. Accountability and Safer Space are the crux of the Occupation. . PLEASE TAKE THIS INTERNAL THREAT VERY SERIOUSLY, as it is a part of a very divisive and ugly history within the New York City activist/anarchist community. I do not want to see OWS implode from the inside. The Banksters and the State will have an easy time sweeping us away if we get bogged down in violent infighting instead of the civil, horizontal consensus process we have enjoyed thus far.
With Sincerity and Peace in my heart, Mellow Yellow @critmasspanic
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of jemcgloin@verizon.net september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Welcome Flyer Tuesday, October 04, 2011 5:23:56 PM
Very cool, maybe a quick run through of general assembly prodedures and how to find a working group? On 10/04/11, J Wedes<jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: Hi everyone, I know we have a NYC GA pamphlet, but I wanted to create something that we could give to new campers upon arrival at the Welcome Centers. Here's my start on it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ql4xnJO1y5kChYhoSCDDImMZZkPSvycCovhGGCb0BNM/edit?hl=en_US It lays out basic rules, info about the park/neighborhood/etc. It is by no means exhaustive, but it's a start. What do people think? -justin
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of grimwomyn september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] Welcome Flyer Tuesday, October 04, 2011 8:25:26 AM
I haven't seen this yet, but this is something that the occupiedwallstreetjournal could print for you... we are already looking into printing the pamphlet as well.... let me know-grim On Oct 4, 2011 12:16 AM, "J Wedes" <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I know we have a NYC GA pamphlet, but I wanted to create something that we > could give to new campers upon arrival at the Welcome Centers. > > Here's my start on it: > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ql4xnJO1y5kChYhoSCDDImMZZkPSvycCovhGGCb0BNM/edit? hl=en_US > > It lays out basic rules, info about the park/neighborhood/etc. It is by no > means exhaustive, but it's a start. > > What do people think? > > -justin
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Ashley Anderson september17@googlegroups.com Re: [september17discuss] What is your favorite protest/liberation song?!?! Sunday, October 02, 2011 11:33:29 AM
This one is new, a modern classic in my opinion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZc6tkCCuEY Chords are pretty straightforward, like any good revolution song. Enjoy! Lyrics: ARISE (Bryan Cahall) Arise ye time-keepers and ye payers of debt, to those gone before us and who haven't come yet. Arise or the moment shall pass to redeem the toil of the nameless, their forfeited dream. Arise all ye prayerful and unfold your hands, and place them flat firm on the soil of the land. Turn your eyes upward and if you must weep, ration your tears for your savior's asleep. Arise luchadores of centuries past, from your dusty page books and mass graves at last. Drown out the broadcast of silence and fear, sing through our voices who followed you here. Chorus: Dry your eyes, arise, arise. Dry your eyes, arise, arise. Arise all ye makers of profit and law, There is no second chance when your number gets called. The ones who possess all the power you seek, here in a language you no longer speak. Arise all ye soldiers and turn your guns round, upon those who laugh as they order you down, to stomp out the weak and to strangle the small, Arise and defend the most vulnerable. Arise all ye prisoners from your concrete hell, dissolve with one voice the walls of your cell. And when the warden asks how can this be? Reply we are human and must act accordingly. Chorus Arise tall sequoia through suburban streets Take with you the vinyl, the asphalt release, The birds from their cages and the kids from their tombs Breathe out the plastic air from their rooms. Arise ye young poets from irony's chains, from sarcasm prisons and transcendent claims. Arise and recall with what clearness you wrote, before you grew jaded before you grew cold. Chorus (x2) Ashley Anderson
Director
Peaceful Uprising 801-652-2971 | Tw | Fb Core Principles
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Marina Sitrin <marina.sitrin@gmail.com> wrote: I do too! M. On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Matthew Presto <matthew.presto@gmail.com> wrote: > Anyone have a copy of the IWW's "Little Red Songbook"? > > On Sep 29, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Ashley Anderson wrote: > > SONGS! Read 'em, listen to 'em, a list we put together with the help of good > old Peter Yarrow (who sang right before MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech.) > http://music.peacefuluprising.org/ > I particularly like "Stand." http://music.peacefuluprising.org/track/stand > We were just talking about this in the Oct2011 google group! > > Ashley Anderson > Director > Peaceful Uprising > 801-652-2971 | > Tw | Fb > Core Principles > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Jackie DiSalvo <jdisalvo@nyc.rr.com> > wrote: >> >> Will do. >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: september17@googlegroups.com [mailto:september17@googlegroups.com] >> On Behalf Of Jon Good >> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 1:11 PM >> >> To: september17@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] What is your favorite protest/liberation
>> song?!?! >> >> >> >> Yo, write this up as a formal thing and send it to the occupywallstreet >> journal >> >> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Jackie DiSalvo <jdisalvo@nyc.rr.com> >> wrote: >> >> DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU'RE TOLD ABOUT THE 60s. WE HAVE A LEGACY. >> (I think I'd like to organize a forum sometime about the differences and >> similarities between the 60s' and our present movement) >> >> I agree that the 60s did little to fight economic oppression or to ally >> with >> the "99%." That's why Occupy Wall Street is much more progressive than >> much >> of the 60s movement; some factions in SDS were virulently anti-working >> class >> and many identified youth, not workers, as the ones to organize. I am >> working class and formed groups in Madison. Wis. to fight those >> tendencies. >> We put out a local labor newspaper, organized truck drivers, met with >> unions at the School for Workers, set up labor oriented study groups and >> even got official pro-labor Economics classes. A book will soon be out >> about the organizing of working class youth by SDS members, as with Rising >> Up Angry in Chicago. >> >> Of the 60s activists still active, several are in the labor movement. This >> was particularly true about U of Wis, Madison where graduate student >> teachers, many of whom were in the radical movement, formed the first >> graduate teachers' union and had to strike for recognition, shutting down >> the university in Spring 1970, supported by the radical student movement >> which had been fighting the university on issues related to the Vietnam >> war. >> Not only did that union, stemming from the 60s, lead the public school >> teachers to occupy the capitol building in 2011, but one of its 60s >> leaders >> had become head of the Wis AFL-CIO-- which partly explains why the Wis >> movement was so advanced - there was a 60s legacy. Many of the older >> public >> school teachers were in school while students were in the streets, their >> consciousness was effected (all of Madison, including its Congressman was >> anti-war); in fact, they may have been in the high school contingents >> which >> joined us in anti-war marches. >> >> Moreover, the Civil Rights movement was working class and M L King's March >> on Washington was organized in great part by the labor movement, which, as >> with 1199, the hospital workers, was largely African-American. >>
>> -----Original Message---->> From: september17@googlegroups.com [mailto:september17@googlegroups.com] >> On >> >> Behalf Of guindave@aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:16 PM >> To: september17@googlegroups.com >> >> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] What is your favorite protest/liberation >> song?!?! >> >> for once almost don't agree with Jackie not exactly. I agree with Jon >> as well sort of. We should use Labor Songs, Labor songs adapted by the >> Civil rights movements is fine(ideally no one is going to listen to >> this which is fine). I would like to say that culturally the 60s made >> our society more humane. However economically and this is only very >> partially because of the new left they sent us backward economically. >> What I believe is we have to avoided at all costs looking like the 60s >> and try our best to look like something new. To do this we have to do >> what tom Haden did in the first place announce and make clear and just >> put out the as us kids who are silly some times call it "mems" of being >> different. >> >> Solidarity >> Dave >> >> >> >> -----Original Message---->> From: Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com> >> To: september17 <september17@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Thu, Sep 29, 2011 11:09 am >> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] What is your favorite >> protest/liberation song?!?! >> >> My big problems with adopting the trappings of the 60s movement is that >> 1) the 60s revolution failed, and 2) all the art and cultural things >> surrounding it has been totally co-opted for the purposes of making >> money, 3) we already have enough stuff that thematically links us to >> the 60s and there are plenty of other awesome movements to connect >> with, and 4) while it's a cultural touchstone for middle-class white >> folks and is awesome for bridging the gap between generations within >> that demographic, it looks absolutely ridiculous to everyone outside it. >> >> I like the sentiment of Where is the Love, I think there's just too >> many lyrics for people to be understood. >> >> >> Something simple, already popular, and NOT related to the 60s hippie >> movement will have the potential to be fantastically effective. >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >
solidarity, Jon On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:30 AM, gail zawacki <witsendnj@gmail.com> wrote: Speaking as a granny, I love taking the All We are Saying, Is Give Peace a Chance and changing peace to whatever - Earth? It fun to sing and add clangy music to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZC7sqImaM On another note, I heard on NPR this am that there is going to be an investigation of the pepper spray incident and that made me realize, I bet I know what was going on (I was right behind the girls) which is, that cop deliberately sought the one girl out because she was marching for much of the way topless (fortunately she had donned it prior to the incident). He's probably kind of a closet perv. and really nasty man.
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 8:49 AM, jason ahmadi <jason.ahmadi@gmail.com> wrote: Hey lovelies, I've been thinking rather than chanting, it would be really cool if we could all sing in unison on one of our marches. If people like it we could repeat it. I can make copies at my office so if people want to send me their favorite songs for everyone to sing I could print out some lyric sheets! Let's also try and break free from the old school protest songs (even though I am including "we shall overcome") and try some new stuff like "where is the love?" by Black Eyed Peas. But don't let that stop you from suggesting those oldies and goodies for me to write down. The grannies shouldn't be the ones having all the fun! Peace and Love, Jason
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of jemcgloin@verizon.net september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] 74% of Daily News readers say OccupyWallSt is "a great cause" Sunday, October 02, 2011 1:18:02 PM
Notice that the first thing that he says is that the issues they are pushing are those where a supermajority of Americans are sying one thing and the government is doing another. That is how you involve the 99%
On 10/02/11, gail zawacki<witsendnj@gmail.com> wrote: Don't know if you've seen this: http://current.com/shows/countdown/videos/october2011-orgs-kevin-zeese-on-his-groups-affinity-with-occupywall-street On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Vicente Rubio <vrubiopu@gmail.com> wrote: +1000000
2011/10/2 Luis Moreno-Caballud <morenocaballud@yahoo.es> Yes! For me the key moment is going to be when that "non-activist" people feel at home in the movement and start working. If we achieve that, things could really change.
On Oct 2, 2011, at 8:56 AM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: Wow we must be doing something right. We need to demand that they all get on the street. Liking us is important but not enough. Yesterday, I was in Brooklyn and ended up at the Brooklyn side of the bridge, watching all the cops. A middle aged guy standing next to me said, its Occupy Wall St. I asked him what he thought. He said he supports it 100%, and that his daughter is so into that she shaved her head and wants to go sleep there. I told him its a great crowd and that she would be safe. He said I know we already checked it out. Then his daughter showed up and she was ready to bum rush the bridge, but mom took her home to watch the live feed. Then I take the train to Liberty and while 400 are being arrested the park is still packed! Everybody tries to play us down, but how many movements can spin off march after march after march, and still have more people at the end? On 10/02/11, Doug Singsen<dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/10/01/2011-1001_dozens_arrested_at_occupy_wall_street_protest_brooklyn_bridge_shut_down_.html? r=topnews http://www.nydailynews.com/nydn/poll.do? pollCmsUniqueId=20111001_occupying_wall_street&pollTitle=Occupying+Wall+Street&pollQu estion=Do+you+agree+with+the+protesters%3F&voteExpirationDate=&option_labels=Yes%2C +it%27s+a+great+cause.%3BNo%2C+they+don%27t+know+what+they%27re+fighting+for.%3 BI%27m+not+sure.&20111001_occupying_wall_street=1&vote=vote
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of jemcgloin@verizon.net september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] Declaration of the Occupation of New York City [official] Sunday, October 02, 2011 4:30:41 PM
Ok thats good. What happened?
On 10/02/11, Amin Husain<amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: There was no demands meeting. There was a principles of solidarity meeting. On Oct 2, 2011, at 9:19 AM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: I am wondering if you guys ever met on the demands thing, and if you did what you talked about. John
On 10/01/11, Doug Singsen<dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: Where is the meeting? Sent from my phone On Oct 1, 2011 9:25 AM, "Amin Husain" <amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: Sounds good. 1:30 On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: that would be great. can we make the meeting at 1:30?
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Amin Husain <amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: I am not sure. We can meet today in the afternoon before the march after 12, if you and others are free. I could also explain how this fits into the demands discussion that is ongoing and how it's evolving.
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: when is the group's next meeting?
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Amin Husain <amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: The working group on principles of solidarity has the document printed to be put before the GA to discuss and reach consensus. If time permits, that may be today. On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: I'd love to. When and where is the group that is working on demands and points of solidarity meeting?
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote: Doug, We should be able to modify our documents, and it would be wise to do so at this
early stage. Indeed the points that you are raising are very important. I urge you to team with those interested and elaborate a modification that addresses the issues raised. Cesar
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: I'm very glad that we have this, and overall it's very good, but it's missing one big thing: there is no mention of how Wall Street created the economic crisis that destroyed millions of jobs, and how Wall Street was bailed out of its crisis by cutting vital public services! Any chance we can get that added? I realize that this list is not meant to include every grievance, but this is incredibly important and central to the damage done by Wall Street specifically, as opposed to capitalism as a whole. Frankly, we would not be occupying Liberty Park now if it weren't for the economic crisis - that's what set all this in motion. To not include it here seems like a major omission, and may make it harder to do outreach to the public sector unions that have started supporting us. Doug
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 10:15 AM, gail zawacki <witsendnj@gmail.com> wrote: Love it!
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Drew, perhaps a link to the live stream take of the GA discussion could be posted in the Web page together with the declaration. I am very glad about finally starting to have some definition. It was a great work, and we should continue to improve the process of elaborating our documents. Cesar Sent from phone
On Sep 30, 2011, at 5:30 AM, Drew <dhornbein@gmail.com> wrote: http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-ofnew-york-city/ spread this far and wide! Short code: http://nycga.cc/?p=780 print for saturday
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of jemcgloin@verizon.net september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] Declaration of the Occupation of New York City [official] Sunday, October 02, 2011 6:36:02 PM
Is it on the website?
On 10/02/11, Amin Husain<amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: Finalized the third iteration. On agenda tomorrow night. On Oct 2, 2011, at 4:30 PM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: Ok thats good. What happened?
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Amin Husain <amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: I am not sure. We can meet today in the afternoon before the march after 12, if you and others are free. I could also explain how this fits into the demands discussion that is on-going and how it's evolving.
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote: Doug, We should be able to modify our documents, and it would be wise to do so at this early stage. Indeed the points that you are raising are very important. I urge you to team with those interested and elaborate a modification that addresses the issues raised. Cesar
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: I'm very glad that we have this, and overall it's very good, but it's missing one big thing: there is no mention of how Wall Street created the economic crisis that destroyed millions of jobs, and how Wall Street was bailed out of its crisis by cutting vital public services! Any chance we can get that added? I realize that this list is not meant to include every grievance, but this is incredibly important and central to the damage done by Wall Street specifically, as opposed to capitalism as a whole. Frankly, we would not be occupying Liberty Park now if it weren't for the economic crisis - that's what set all this in motion. To not include it here seems like a major omission, and may make it harder to do outreach to the public sector unions that have started supporting us. Doug
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Drew, perhaps a link to the live stream take of the GA discussion could be posted in the Web page together with the declaration. I am very glad about finally starting to have some definition. It was a great work, and we should continue to improve the process of elaborating our documents. Cesar
Sent from phone
On Sep 30, 2011, at 5:30 AM, Drew <dhornbein@gmail.com> wrote: http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-theoccupation-of-new-york-city/ spread this far and wide! Short code: http://nycga.cc/?p=780 print for saturday
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of jemcgloin@verizon.net september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] Declaration of the Occupation of New York City [official] Sunday, October 02, 2011 9:20:07 AM
I am wondering if you guys ever met on the demands thing, and if you did what you talked about. John
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: I'm very glad that we have this, and overall it's very good, but it's missing one big thing: there is no mention of how Wall Street created the economic crisis that destroyed millions of jobs, and how Wall Street was bailed out of its crisis by cutting vital public services! Any chance we can get that added? I realize that this list is not meant to include every grievance, but this is incredibly important and central to the damage done by Wall Street specifically, as opposed to capitalism as a whole. Frankly, we would not be occupying Liberty Park now if it weren't for the economic
crisis - that's what set all this in motion. To not include it here seems like a major omission, and may make it harder to do outreach to the public sector unions that have started supporting us. Doug
On Sep 30, 2011, at 5:30 AM, Drew <dhornbein@gmail.com> wrote: http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-of-new-york-city/ spread this far and wide! Short code: http://nycga.cc/?p=780 print for saturday
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of jemcgloin@verizon.net september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] Fwd: Fw: Occupied Wall Street Sunday, October 02, 2011 8:12:18 PM
I just got an email from Van Jones' Rebuild the Dream organization that they are coming with move-on, and have a "virtual march" for people that can't be there. And did I mention how cool it is that CNN is promoting our march for us. :) shhh don't tell them.
On 10/02/11, gabjoh2@gmail.com wrote: If you build it, they will come. We are building it! --glj Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry From: Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 19:34:48 -0400 To: <september17@googlegroups.com> ReplyTo: september17@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Fwd: Fw: Occupied Wall Street To summarize: MoveOn is mobilizing for the Wednesday march together with Beyond May 12th and allied unions and community groups! Whatever you think of MoveOn's politics (and I have problems with them on many levels), this will pump up the Wednesday demo and help spread OWS even further. DS On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:21 PM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------From: naomi less <naomiless@gmail.com> Date: Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 6:03 PM Subject: Fw: Occupied Wall Street To: jwedes@gmail.com
www.naomiless.com pls excuse typos (from blackberry) From: "Justin Ruben, MoveOn.org Civic Action" <moveon-help@list.moveon.org> Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2011 14:55:28 -0700 To: naomi less<naomiless@gmail.com> Subject: Occupied Wall Street Dear MoveOn member, Over the last two weeks, an amazing wave of protest against Wall Street and the big banks has erupted across the country.
We're going to stage a massive "Virtual March on Wall Street" online to show our support for the Occupy Wall Street protests this
In Seattle, San Francisco, Ohio, and Boston (where 3,000 people rallied), 1 grassroots groups have shut down banks and held sit-ins to demand that giant banks pay their fair share of taxes, end the foreclosure crisis, and create jobs. In financial centers like Chicago and Atlanta, hundreds of people have set up encampments in front of major financial institutions for round-the-clock demonstrations.
Wednesday. Sign up to join hundreds of thousands of voices of solidarity and help show just how widespread the outrage Wall Street really is.
Sign up
Outside Los Angeles, community members have been running a 24-hour vigil around the home of Rose Gudiel, who faces eviction after getting foreclosed on for being two weeks late on a mortgage payment after her younger brother was murdered.2 But the biggest protests are on Wall Street itself. "Occupy Wall Street," which began with a brave group of young people, has swelled to thousands of students, unemployed folks, union members, and others who have persevered through intense police harassment and mass arrests to sustain a rolling 24-hour-a-day protest against the bankers who've wrecked our economy and undermined our democracy.3 On Wednesday, MoveOn members will join labor and community groups in New York City for a huge march down to the protest sitethe biggest yet. And because we can't all be in New York, we're going to stage a massive "Virtual March on Wall Street" online with our friends at Rebuild the Dream. Together, we'll add hundreds of thousands of voices of solidarity from the American Dream Movement for the protests across the country and show just how widespread outrage at the Wall Street banks really is. Click here to sign up to join the Virtual March on Wall Street this Wednesday The protests on Wall Street have been running for two weeks straight and are only getting bigger every day. The signs, placards, and chants focus on standing up for what the protesters are calling "the 99%" of us who are suffering while Wall Street bankers grow richer by the day. In a telling moment last week, a group of bankers even went so far as to mock the protests while sipping champagne from balconies overlooking thousands of people marching down Wall Street. 4 But adding mockery to the callous disregard for our country that we've seen from the big banks isn't slowing down the Occupy Wall Street movement one bit. The protests on Wall Street are set to grow even more this week and solidarity actions are already planned in dozens more cities. You can see what's planned in your area by visiting the solidarity site Occupy Together: http://www.moveon.org/r?r=264645&id=31654-8720705-eWQvaWx&t=3 And you can sign up to add your voice to the national "Virtual March on Wall Street" online here: http://www.civic.moveon.org/joinvirtualwallstreet/?id=31654-8720705-eWQvaWx&t=4 Thanks for all you do. Justin, Robin, Peter, Elena, and the rest of the team Sources: 1. "BofA's Boston Building Draws Protesters; 21 Arrests Are Made," bloomberg.com, September 30, 2011 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=264642&id=31654-8720705-eWQvaWx&t=5 2. "La Puente Family Fights Eviction from Foreclosed Home," KTLA.com, September 29, 2011 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=264643&id=31654-8720705-eWQvaWx&t=6 3. "Anti-Wall Street Protestors Vow to Keep Up Fight," Reuters, October 2, 2011 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=264644&id=31654-8720705-eWQvaWx&t=7
4. "Occupy Wall Street Protestors Meet Champagne Sippers," abcnews.com, September 30, 2011 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=264649&id=31654-8720705-eWQvaWx&t=8
Subscription Management: This is a message from MoveOn.org Civic Action. To change your email address or update your contact info, please visit: http://moveon.org/subscrip/coa.html?id=31654-8720705-eWQvaWx To remove yourself (naomi less) from this list, please visit our subscription management page at: http://moveon.org/s?i=31654-8720705-eWQvaWx
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of jemcgloin@verizon.net september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] Fwd: The PR company I told you was "representing" OWS Fwd: Workhouse PR Tuesday, October 04, 2011 5:37:54 PM
+1 On 10/04/11, Will Gauss<willgauss@gmail.com> wrote: To protect us from people lying about representing us, put to a vote at the GA today that we make a blanket statement informing the media that no company speaks for us and to reject any speaker who claims otherwise as a liar. Then, form a working group to select -individuals- who are authorized to speak for us. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Micah White <micahmwhite@gmail.com> wrote: Beware of corporate co-optation in all its guises. They want to "help" #OWS for a reason. To maintain our authenticity we must reject all corporate influence. We must not become a corporate sponsored movement.
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Snafu <snafu@thething.it> wrote: Just heard a guy at the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC, who called in as an OWS "spokesperson" and claimed to be "in charge of security at the park." The radio show was about how Wall Street traders and workers feel about the occupation. He said that he wanted the radio conversation to happen in the square (on which I can agree) and then added that OWS is not about class warfare but about getting things done and bringing about change. The overall tone was that of a reassuring middleclass guy speaking to middle America. While this communicative style may help expand our ranks, it will also help change the social composition of the movement in such a way that if any reforms are ever passed, they will be probably so watered-down that they will change in fact nothing. I am not sure how spokespersons are selected and whether this guy (who claimed to have appeared on several TV programs as well) has anything to do with the PR firm mentioned in this thread. But I want to raise the point that this way of communicating can have serious political consequences, some of which may not be that desirable. I think we should try and select spokespersons who are able to express a more radical point of view in a reasonable way.
On 10/4/11 9:25 AM, Doug Singsen wrote: +1 Sent from my phone On Oct 4, 2011 8:19 AM, "Jon Good" <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote: WTF? I appreciate that folks are eager to help, but I am very, very wary of this. It could be really nice to have their noise machine at our disposal, but in general, using the structures and systems of huge corporations presents a danger of this movement acting like corporation. Also, I'm fairly sure no entity can be the "official" anything of Occupy Wall Street without passing consensus in the GA.
Public relations, generally, is about controlling peoples' perceptions and ideas about certain things. We shouldn't do this, because it's antithetical to participatory democracy. Moreover, we haven't defined ourselves or consensed upon demands, so any of their usual schtick would be hijacking the process of defining us. I would welcome their suggestions for strategies for reaching large numbers of people, and would welcome their considerable skills to talk us up in the media, but OWS is not their client and a corporate firm should probably not "represent" us in any sense of the word. Solidarity, Jon
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 2:20 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: Has anyone else from this list been in discussion with Workhouse PR? Just trying to understand if we are outsourcing "PR" work. -justin ---------- Forwarded message ---------From: R M <rebeccaction@gmail.com> Date: Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 2:14 AM Subject: Re: The PR company I told you was "representing" OWS Fwd: Workhouse PR To: J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com>
Certainly and of course! Please be sure to keep me in the loop going forward, thanks. -Rebecca
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:50 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Rebecca, Can I forward this info about Workhouse PR onto the september 17 listserv? I just want to make sure that everyone is aware of the conversations going on about PR. -justin
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:45 AM, R M <rebeccaction@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Justin, Nice to meet you briefly today. Here's a FW from my roommate, who runs the occupyinfo twitter account. He was contacted by Workhouse PR, which does work for big clients like Saks Fifth Avenue. He said they seemed well-intentioned and were volunteering their time. Here's a link to an article or two about this release to the media they did about Saturday's protests:
http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2011/10/03/2011-1003_occupy_wall_street_protesters_picked_up_by_public_relations_firm_workhouse_probo.html
http://gawker.com/5846154/occupy-wall-street-gets-much+needed-help-frompr-firm We should both be in touch with these folks, right? Would you do me a favor and cc: me on your correspondence? And I will do the same. Be well, -Rebecca
---------- Forwarded message ---------From: Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com> Date: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 10:55 PM Subject: Fwd: Workhouse PR To: rebeccaction@gmail.com
---------- Forwarded message ---------From: William Schwartz <will.js1@gmail.com> Date: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 6:49 PM Subject: Re: Workhouse PR To: Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com>
Well they are volunteering their help. I just chatted them up on twitter. There was an article in the New York Post about it too.
William Schwartz 917.385.5047 Connect! http://twitter.com/2William
On 3 October 2011 18:47, Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com> wrote: Are you joking! On Oct 3, 2011 4:20 PM, "William Schwartz" <will.js1@gmail.com> wrote: > They are now occupy wall street's PR firm. They just wrote me on twitter > incase you want to get in touch with them? > > http://www.workhousepr.com/home.php > > > William Schwartz > 917.385.5047
I actually think your stategy is backward. The way i see it first you get large numbers of people to join by showing how reasonable you are. Then when the numbers are big enough, they will feel their oats, get impatient, and start demanding more than you could have imagined. (Never underestimate mob mentality.) But if you talk about overthrowing governments, capitalism or wholesale changes, most of the 99% will be scared off, and we'll never have the power we need to affect real change. In order to fight the global coporations I estimate we need a minimum of 15 million Americans on the street. There are not 15 million radical socialist/anarchists in the US. We need people without political agendas, but with anger at coporations. I am also wary of using PR firms, by the way. (Athough the fact that anyone can call and be a "spokesman" shows one of our weaknesses.)
On 10/04/11, Snafu<snafu@thething.it> wrote: Just heard a guy at the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC, who called in as an OWS "spokesperson" and claimed to be "in charge of security at the park." The radio show was about how Wall Street traders and workers feel about the occupation. He said that he wanted the radio conversation to happen in the square (on which I can agree) and then added that OWS is not about class warfare but about getting things done and bringing about change. The overall tone was that of a reassuring middle-class guy speaking to middle America. While this communicative style may help expand our ranks, it will also help change the social composition of the movement in such a way that if any reforms are ever passed, they will be probably so watered-down that they will change in fact nothing. I am not sure how spokespersons are selected and whether this guy (who claimed to have appeared on several TV programs as well) has anything to do with the PR firm mentioned in this thread. But I want to raise the point that this way of communicating can have serious political consequences, some of which may not be that desirable. I think we should try and select spokespersons who are able to express a more radical point of view in a reasonable way.
On 10/4/11 9:25 AM, Doug Singsen wrote: +1 Sent from my phone On Oct 4, 2011 8:19 AM, "Jon Good" <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote: WTF? I appreciate that folks are eager to help, but I am very, very wary of this. It could be really nice to have their noise machine at our disposal, but in general, using the structures and systems of huge corporations presents a danger of this movement acting like corporation. Also, I'm fairly sure no entity can be the "official" anything of Occupy Wall Street without passing consensus in the GA. Public relations, generally, is about controlling peoples' perceptions and ideas about certain things. We shouldn't do this, because it's antithetical to participatory democracy. Moreover, we haven't defined ourselves or consensed upon demands, so any of their usual schtick would be hijacking the process of defining us. I would welcome their suggestions for strategies for reaching large numbers of people, and would welcome their considerable skills to talk us up in the media, but OWS is not their client and a corporate firm should probably not "represent" us in any sense of the word.
Solidarity, Jon
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:50 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Rebecca, Can I forward this info about Workhouse PR onto the september 17 listserv? I just want to make sure that everyone is aware of the conversations going on about PR. -justin
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:45 AM, R M <rebeccaction@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Justin, Nice to meet you briefly today. Here's a FW from my roommate, who runs the occupyinfo twitter account. He was contacted by Workhouse PR, which does work for big clients like Saks Fifth Avenue. He said they seemed well-intentioned and were volunteering their time. Here's a link to an article or two about this release to the media they did about Saturday's protests: http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2011/10/03/2011-1003_occupy_wall_street_protesters_picked_up_by_public_relations_firm_workhouse_probo.html
http://gawker.com/5846154/occupy-wall-street-gets-much+needed-help-from-pr-firm We should both be in touch with these folks, right? Would you do me a favor and cc: me on your correspondence? And I will do the same. Be well, -Rebecca
On 3 October 2011 18:47, Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com> wrote: Are you joking! On Oct 3, 2011 4:20 PM, "William Schwartz" <will.js1@gmail.com> wrote: > They are now occupy wall street's PR firm. They just wrote me on twitter > incase you want to get in touch with them? > > http://www.workhousepr.com/home.php > > > William Schwartz > 917.385.5047
This sound sangerous to me also
On 10/04/11, Doug Singsen<dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: +1 Sent from my phone On Oct 4, 2011 8:19 AM, "Jon Good" <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote: WTF? I appreciate that folks are eager to help, but I am very, very wary of this. It could be really nice to have their noise machine at our disposal, but in general, using the structures and systems of huge corporations presents a danger of this movement acting like corporation. Also, I'm fairly sure no entity can be the "official" anything of Occupy Wall Street without passing consensus in the GA. Public relations, generally, is about controlling peoples' perceptions and ideas about certain things. We shouldn't do this, because it's antithetical to participatory democracy. Moreover, we haven't defined ourselves or consensed upon demands, so any of their usual schtick would be hijacking the process of defining us. I would welcome their suggestions for strategies for reaching large numbers of people, and would welcome their considerable skills to talk us up in the media, but OWS is not their client and a corporate firm should probably not "represent" us in any sense of the word. Solidarity, Jon
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:50 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Rebecca, Can I forward this info about Workhouse PR onto the september 17 listserv?
I just want to make sure that everyone is aware of the conversations going on about PR. -justin
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:45 AM, R M <rebeccaction@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Justin, Nice to meet you briefly today. Here's a FW from my roommate, who runs the occupyinfo twitter account. He was contacted by Workhouse PR, which does work for big clients like Saks Fifth Avenue. He said they seemed well-intentioned and were volunteering their time. Here's a link to an article or two about this release to the media they did about Saturday's protests: http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2011/10/03/2011-1003_occupy_wall_street_protesters_picked_up_by_public_relations_firm_workhouse_probo.html http://gawker.com/5846154/occupy-wall-street-gets-much+needed-help-from-pr-firm We should both be in touch with these folks, right? Would you do me a favor and cc: me on your correspondence? And I will do the same. Be well, -Rebecca
On 3 October 2011 18:47, Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com> wrote:
Are you joking! On Oct 3, 2011 4:20 PM, "William Schwartz" <will.js1@gmail.com> wrote: > They are now occupy wall street's PR firm. They just wrote me on twitter > incase you want to get in touch with them? > > http://www.workhousepr.com/home.php > > > William Schwartz > 917.385.5047
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Matthew Presto september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] Liberty Park is filling to capacity. We need to plan for overflow. Monday, October 03, 2011 7:04:40 AM
Similar to the way that the decision was reached to occupy our current site, I would recommend empowering a working group (perhaps a new one for this purpose) to scout out a second location, determine when it would be occupied, and make the announcement to everyone not too long beforehand, so as to minimize police disruption. I wouldn't be part of this group, but if you are interested, I wouldn't say so on this listserv. What are some thoughts about this approach? On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 1:11 AM, <jemcgloin@verizon.net> wrote:
I won't see anybody in person for a while for a while so try searching nyc community gardens
On 10/02/11, Doug Singsen<dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: We should only discuss future locations in person. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 11:01 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote: We are Occupy Wall Street, moving to Washington Square Park will make de-politicise this occupation its symbolic and direct action! We are gaining momentum because it is in Wall Street. If we do take this anywhere else in NYC, it should be politically strategic change, like in front of the United Nations. I am sorry i will stand with the 99% wherever we decide to go, but we should think strategically, even if we are larger in numbers, by moving further from the heart of the problem and wall street, We will lose political clout. We need a place that send a resounding message to the rest of the world. United Nations is a good place to occupy to get that message across. How? not sure, but there is a lot of space in front of the UN, not as lovely as washington square but politically more potent. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:47 PM, hextic <willgauss@gmail.com> wrote: > Currently, the NYPD has allowed Liberty Park to be occupied, and from > what I see the occupation there is stable. Though, I am sure that > they are looking for any excuse to clear the park. One such excuse > could easily become sanitation or health concerns due to crowding. > These excuses are very PR-friendly for the NYPD. > > In order to expand the occupation we need to occupy another park, > preferably a larger one. We should absolutely continue to use Liberty > Park as our primary demonstration site and rallying point, but it will > not house the entire 99%. I propose that we explore how we might > assume control of Washington Square Park. As public land, there is no > excuse for eviction that we are trespassing. A physically large > presence in the park will make NYPD interference difficult because > they will have to wade through a sea of people to find the one person > who happens to be wearing a mask or more recently, has chained a > bicycle to something. There are arches which we can triumphantly > march through and return through. The open aerial coverage presents > multiple excellent media photography opportunities, capturing us as a > sea of people like the pictures we saw from Tahrir Square in Egypt. >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
This move would also serve to greatly expand the demonstration. I suspect that the Liberty Park demonstration is self-limiting. People will not willingly walk into a too-dense crowd of people. So, the physical dimensions of Liberty Plaza limits the number of occupants naturally, potentially making the choice between whether a person stays the night, ensuring participation the next day or not. I do not propose that we occupy Washington Square Park immediately, only that we begin planning for it. On Wednesday, we will have significant numbers of people which we will want to encourage to stay by any and all mans. I suggest that once the march returns to Liberty Park, we use the People's Mic to announce that anyone who would like to stay but cannot find space there, to form a march to Washington Square Park to found a brand new encampment there.
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of jemcgloin@verizon.net september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] Liberty Park is filling to capacity. We need to plan for overflow. Monday, October 03, 2011 1:11:56 AM
I won't see anybody in person for a while for a while so try searching nyc community gardens
On 10/02/11, Doug Singsen<dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: We should only discuss future locations in person. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 11:01 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote: We are Occupy Wall Street, moving to Washington Square Park will make de-politicise this occupation its symbolic and direct action! We are gaining momentum because it is in Wall Street. If we do take this anywhere else in NYC, it should be politically strategic change, like in front of the United Nations. I am sorry i will stand with the 99% wherever we decide to go, but we should think strategically, even if we are larger in numbers, by moving further from the heart of the problem and wall street, We will lose political clout. We need a place that send a resounding message to the rest of the world. United Nations is a good place to occupy to get that message across. How? not sure, but there is a lot of space in front of the UN, not as lovely as washington square but politically more potent. On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:47 PM, hextic <willgauss@gmail.com> wrote: > Currently, the NYPD has allowed Liberty Park to be occupied, and from > what I see the occupation there is stable. Though, I am sure that > they are looking for any excuse to clear the park. One such excuse > could easily become sanitation or health concerns due to crowding. > These excuses are very PR-friendly for the NYPD. > > In order to expand the occupation we need to occupy another park, > preferably a larger one. We should absolutely continue to use Liberty > Park as our primary demonstration site and rallying point, but it will > not house the entire 99%. I propose that we explore how we might > assume control of Washington Square Park. As public land, there is no > excuse for eviction that we are trespassing. A physically large > presence in the park will make NYPD interference difficult because > they will have to wade through a sea of people to find the one person > who happens to be wearing a mask or more recently, has chained a > bicycle to something. There are arches which we can triumphantly > march through and return through. The open aerial coverage presents > multiple excellent media photography opportunities, capturing us as a > sea of people like the pictures we saw from Tahrir Square in Egypt. > > This move would also serve to greatly expand the demonstration. I > suspect that the Liberty Park demonstration is self-limiting. People > will not willingly walk into a too-dense crowd of people. So, the > physical dimensions of Liberty Plaza limits the number of occupants > naturally, potentially making the choice between whether a person > stays the night, ensuring participation the next day or not. > > I do not propose that we occupy Washington Square Park immediately,
> > > > > >
only that we begin planning for it. On Wednesday, we will have significant numbers of people which we will want to encourage to stay by any and all mans. I suggest that once the march returns to Liberty Park, we use the People's Mic to announce that anyone who would like to stay but cannot find space there, to form a march to Washington Square Park to found a brand new encampment there.
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of shaista husain september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity. Wednesday, October 05, 2011 10:41:12 AM
HI when is there a meeting on discussing the draft of "Principles of Solidarity" was asking around for several days.. thanks, Shaista On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:51 PM, <jemcgloin@verizon.net> wrote: > Could you possibly post it on the website, or at least on here, so that > people can read it? Is it an updated version of the "principles of > solidarity" that was on line? We have at least five groups working on > messages and it is almost impossible to find them or what they are working > on. There is a demands list on occupywallst.com but when I tried to comment > it wouldn't take my comment. > We passed a list of grievances on Thursday, and I happened to be there, but > it was the first I had heard of the document. The open source group is > working on something, but I can't find them since Thursday night. Shouldn't > the open source group be available on line? > I'm glad to have almost any message to the world, but the whole point of > waiting to have a message was so that everyone could have input, and even > though I am on line 4 hours a day, and there two nights a week, I feel like > I have very little input (not that I should have any more than anyone > else). > Is one of the principles "transparency?" > I'm not as upset as this email might make me sound. I love our process and > I know these issues will be worked out, but talking about the issues is part > of the process. So I am just aksing that all of you messaging groups try a > little harder to communicate with the rest of us and each other. > Thanks, John McG > > On 10/02/11, Amin Husain<amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: > No > > On Oct 2, 2011, at 6:35 PM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: > > Is it on the website? > > > On 10/02/11, Amin Husain<amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: > Finalized the third iteration. On agenda tomorrow night. > > On Oct 2, 2011, at 4:30 PM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: > > Ok thats good. What happened? > > > On 10/02/11, Amin Husain<amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: > There was no demands meeting. > There was a principles of solidarity meeting. > > On Oct 2, 2011, at 9:19 AM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: > > I am wondering if you guys ever met on the demands thing, and if you did > what you talked about. > John
> > > On 10/01/11, Doug Singsen<dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > > Where is the meeting? > > Sent from my phone > > On Oct 1, 2011 9:25 AM, "Amin Husain" <amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Sounds good. 1:30 >> >> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> that would be great. can we make the meeting at 1:30? >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Amin Husain <amin.husain@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I am not sure. We can meet today in the afternoon before the march >>>> after 12, if you and others are free. I could also explain how this fits >>>> into the demands discussion that is on-going and how it's evolving. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> when is the group's next meeting? >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Amin Husain <amin.husain@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The working group on principles of solidarity has the document printed >>>>>> to be put before the GA to discuss and reach consensus. If time permits, >>>>>> that may be today. >>>>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd love to. When and where is the group that is working on demands >>>>>>> and points of solidarity meeting? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco >>>>>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Doug, >>>>>>>> We should be able to modify our documents, and it would be wise to >>>>>>>> do so at this early stage. Indeed the points that you are raising are very >>>>>>>> important. I urge you to team with those interested and elaborate a >>>>>>>> modification that addresses the issues raised. >>>>>>>> Cesar >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Doug Singsen >>>>>>>> <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm very glad that we have this, and overall it's very good, but >>>>>>>>> it's missing one big thing: there is no mention of how Wall Street created >>>>>>>>> the economic crisis that destroyed millions of jobs, and how Wall Street was >>>>>>>>> bailed out of its crisis by cutting vital public services! Any chance we can >>>>>>>>> get that added? I realize that this list is not meant to include every >>>>>>>>> grievance, but this is incredibly important and central to the damage done
>>>>>>>>> by Wall Street specifically, as opposed to capitalism as a whole. Frankly, >>>>>>>>> we would not be occupying Liberty Park now if it weren't for the economic >>>>>>>>> crisis - that's what set all this in motion. To not include it here seems >>>>>>>>> like a major omission, and may make it harder to do outreach to the public >>>>>>>>> sector unions that have started supporting us. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 10:15 AM, gail zawacki >>>>>>>>> <witsendnj@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Love it! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Drew, perhaps a link to the live stream take of the GA >>>>>>>>>>> discussion could be posted in the Web page together with the declaration. I >>>>>>>>>>> am very glad about finally starting to have some definition. It was a great >>>>>>>>>>> work, and we should continue to improve the process of elaborating our >>>>>>>>>>> documents. >>>>>>>>>>> Cesar >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from phone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 30, 2011, at 5:30 AM, Drew <dhornbein@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-of-new-york-city/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> spread this far and wide! Short code: http://nycga.cc/?p=780 >>>>>>>>>>> print for saturday >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Doug Singsen september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity. Wednesday, October 05, 2011 10:42:37 AM
It was supposed to be presented to the GA last night for approval. I'd love to hear how that went. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 10:41 AM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote: HI when is there a meeting on discussing the draft of "Principles of Solidarity" was asking around for several days.. thanks, Shaista On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:51 PM, <jemcgloin@verizon.net> wrote: > Could you possibly post it on the website, or at least on here, so that > people can read it? Is it an updated version of the "principles of > solidarity" that was on line? We have at least five groups working on > messages and it is almost impossible to find them or what they are working > on. There is a demands list on occupywallst.com but when I tried to comment > it wouldn't take my comment. > We passed a list of grievances on Thursday, and I happened to be there, but > it was the first I had heard of the document. The open source group is > working on something, but I can't find them since Thursday night. Shouldn't > the open source group be available on line? > I'm glad to have almost any message to the world, but the whole point of > waiting to have a message was so that everyone could have input, and even > though I am on line 4 hours a day, and there two nights a week, I feel like > I have very little input (not that I should have any more than anyone > else). > Is one of the principles "transparency?" > I'm not as upset as this email might make me sound. I love our process and > I know these issues will be worked out, but talking about the issues is part > of the process. So I am just aksing that all of you messaging groups try a > little harder to communicate with the rest of us and each other. > Thanks, John McG > > On 10/02/11, Amin Husain<amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: > No > > On Oct 2, 2011, at 6:35 PM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: > > Is it on the website? > > > On 10/02/11, Amin Husain<amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: > Finalized the third iteration. On agenda tomorrow night. > > On Oct 2, 2011, at 4:30 PM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: > > Ok thats good. What happened? >
> > On 10/02/11, Amin Husain<amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: > There was no demands meeting. > There was a principles of solidarity meeting. > > On Oct 2, 2011, at 9:19 AM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: > > I am wondering if you guys ever met on the demands thing, and if you did > what you talked about. > John > > > On 10/01/11, Doug Singsen<dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > > Where is the meeting? > > Sent from my phone > > On Oct 1, 2011 9:25 AM, "Amin Husain" <amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Sounds good. 1:30 >> >> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> that would be great. can we make the meeting at 1:30? >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Amin Husain <amin.husain@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I am not sure. We can meet today in the afternoon before the march >>>> after 12, if you and others are free. I could also explain how this fits >>>> into the demands discussion that is on-going and how it's evolving. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> when is the group's next meeting? >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Amin Husain <amin.husain@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The working group on principles of solidarity has the document printed >>>>>> to be put before the GA to discuss and reach consensus. If time permits, >>>>>> that may be today. >>>>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd love to. When and where is the group that is working on demands >>>>>>> and points of solidarity meeting? >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco >>>>>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Doug, >>>>>>>> We should be able to modify our documents, and it would be wise to >>>>>>>> do so at this early stage. Indeed the points that you are raising are very >>>>>>>> important. I urge you to team with those interested and elaborate a >>>>>>>> modification that addresses the issues raised. >>>>>>>> Cesar >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Doug Singsen >>>>>>>> <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm very glad that we have this, and overall it's very good, but >>>>>>>>> it's missing one big thing: there is no mention of how Wall Street created >>>>>>>>> the economic crisis that destroyed millions of jobs, and how Wall Street was >>>>>>>>> bailed out of its crisis by cutting vital public services! Any chance we can >>>>>>>>> get that added? I realize that this list is not meant to include every >>>>>>>>> grievance, but this is incredibly important and central to the damage done >>>>>>>>> by Wall Street specifically, as opposed to capitalism as a whole. Frankly, >>>>>>>>> we would not be occupying Liberty Park now if it weren't for the economic >>>>>>>>> crisis - that's what set all this in motion. To not include it here seems >>>>>>>>> like a major omission, and may make it harder to do outreach to the public >>>>>>>>> sector unions that have started supporting us. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 10:15 AM, gail zawacki >>>>>>>>> <witsendnj@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Love it! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Drew, perhaps a link to the live stream take of the GA >>>>>>>>>>> discussion could be posted in the Web page together with the declaration. I >>>>>>>>>>> am very glad about finally starting to have some definition. It was a great >>>>>>>>>>> work, and we should continue to improve the process of elaborating our
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> new-york-city/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
documents. Cesar Sent from phone On Sep 30, 2011, at 5:30 AM, Drew <dhornbein@gmail.com>
http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-ofspread this far and wide! Short code: http://nycga.cc/?p=780 print for saturday
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of shaistahusain@gmail.com september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity. Wednesday, October 05, 2011 10:47:08 AM
No I don't think it was but can you post the draft for review perhaps a bit more transparency or maybe the working group hasn't had time to post when they convene for discussion etc. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 10:42:11 -0400 To: <september17@googlegroups.com> ReplyTo: september17@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity. It was supposed to be presented to the GA last night for approval. I'd love to hear how that went. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 10:41 AM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote: HI when is there a meeting on discussing the draft of "Principles of Solidarity" was asking around for several days.. thanks, Shaista On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:51 PM, <jemcgloin@verizon.net> wrote: > Could you possibly post it on the website, or at least on here, so that > people can read it? Is it an updated version of the "principles of > solidarity" that was on line? We have at least five groups working on > messages and it isalmost impossible to find them or what they are working > on. There is a demands list on occupywallst.com but when I tried to comment > it wouldn't take my comment. > We passed a list of grievances on Thursday, and I happened to be there, but > it was the first I had heard of the document. The open source group is > working on something, but I can't find them since Thursday night. Shouldn't > the open source group be available on line? > I'm glad to have almost any message to the world, but the whole point of > waiting to have a message was so that everyone could have input, and even > though I am on line 4 hours a day, and there two nights a week, I feel like > I have very little input (not that I should have any more than anyone > else). > Is one of the principles "transparency?" > I'm not as upset as this emailmight make me sound. I love our process and > I know these issues will be worked out, but talking about the issues is part > of the process. So I am just aksing that all of you messaging groups try a > little harder to communicate with the rest of us and each other. > Thanks, John McG > > On 10/02/11, Amin Husain<amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote:
> No > > On Oct 2, 2011, at 6:35 PM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: > > Is it on the website? > > > On 10/02/11, Amin Husain<amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: > Finalized the third iteration. On agenda tomorrow night. > > On Oct 2, 2011, at 4:30 PM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: > > Ok thats good. What happened? > > > On 10/02/11, Amin Husain<amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: > There was no demands meeting. > There was a principles of solidarity meeting. > > On Oct 2, 2011, at 9:19 AM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: > > I am wondering if you guys ever met on the demands thing, and if you did > what you talked about. > John > > > On 10/01/11, Doug Singsen<dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: > > Where is the meeting? > > Sent from my phone > > On Oct 1, 2011 9:25 AM, "Amin Husain" <amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Sounds good. 1:30 >> >> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> that would be great. can we make the meeting at 1:30? >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Amin Husain <amin.husain@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I am not sure. We can meet today in the afternoon before the march >>>> after 12, if you and others are free. I could also explain how this fits >>>> into the demands discussion that is on-going and how it's evolving. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> when is the group's next meeting? >>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Amin Husain <amin.husain@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The working group on principles of solidarity has the document printed >>>>>> to be put before the GA to discuss and reach consensus. If time permits, >>>>>> that may be today. >>>>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd love to. When and where is the group that is working on demands >>>>>>> and points of solidarity meeting? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco >>>>>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Doug, >>>>>>>> We should be able to modify our documents, and it would be wise to >>>>>>>> do so at this early stage. Indeed the points that you are raising are very >>>>>>>> important. I urge you to team with those interested and elaborate a >>>>>>>> modification that addresses the issues raised. >>>>>>>> Cesar >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Doug Singsen >>>>>>>> <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm very glad that we have this, and overall it's very good, but >>>>>>>>> it's missing one big thing: there is no mention of how Wall Street created >>>>>>>>> the economic crisis that destroyed millions of jobs, and how Wall Street was >>>>>>>>> bailed out of its crisis by cutting vital public services! Any chance we can >>>>>>>>> get that added? I realize that this list is not meant to include every >>>>>>>>> grievance, but this is incredibly important and central to the damage done >>>>>>>>> by Wall Street specifically, as opposed to capitalism as a whole. Frankly, >>>>>>>>> we would not be occupying Liberty Park now if it weren't for the economic >>>>>>>>> crisis - that's what set all this in motion. To not include it here seems >>>>>>>>> like a major omission, and may make it harder to do outreach to the public >>>>>>>>> sector unions that have started supporting us. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 10:15 AM, gail zawacki >>>>>>>>> <witsendnj@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Love it! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Drew, perhaps a link to the live stream take of the GA >>>>>>>>>>> discussion could be posted in the Web page together with the declaration. I >>>>>>>>>>> am very glad about finally starting to have some definition. It was a great >>>>>>>>>>> work, and we should continue to improve the process of elaborating our >>>>>>>>>>> documents. >>>>>>>>>>> Cesar >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from phone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 30, 2011, at 5:30 AM, Drew <dhornbein@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-ofnew-york-city/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> spread this far and wide! Short code:http://nycga.cc/?p=780 >>>>>>>>>>> print for saturday >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of jemcgloin@verizon.net september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity. Sunday, October 02, 2011 7:51:13 PM
Could you possibly post it on the website, or at least on here, so that people can read it? Is it an updated version of the "principles of solidarity" that was on line? We have at least five groups working on messages and it is almost impossible to find them or what they are working on. There is a demands list on occupywallst.com but when I tried to comment it wouldn't take my comment. We passed a list of grievances on Thursday, and I happened to be there, but it was the first I had heard of the document. The open source group is working on something, but I can't find them since Thursday night. Shouldn't the open source group be available on line? I'm glad to have almost any message to the world, but the whole point of waiting to have a message was so that everyone could have input, and even though I am on line 4 hours a day, and there two nights a week, I feel like I have very little input (not that I should have any more than anyone else). Is one of the principles "transparency?" I'm not as upset as this email might make me sound. I love our process and I know these issues will be worked out, but talking about the issues is part of the process. So I am just aksing that all of you messaging groups try a little harder to communicate with the rest of us and each other. Thanks, John McG On 10/02/11, Amin Husain<amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: No On Oct 2, 2011, at 6:35 PM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: Is it on the website?
On 10/02/11, Amin Husain<amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: Finalized the third iteration. On agenda tomorrow night. On Oct 2, 2011, at 4:30 PM, jemcgloin@verizon.net wrote: Ok thats good. What happened?
On 10/01/11, Doug Singsen<dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote:
Where is the meeting? Sent from my phone On Oct 1, 2011 9:25 AM, "Amin Husain" <amin.husain@gmail.com> wrote: Sounds good. 1:30 On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: that would be great. can we make the meeting at 1:30?
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: I'm very glad that we have this, and overall it's very good, but it's missing one big thing: there is no mention of how Wall Street created the economic crisis that destroyed millions of jobs, and how Wall Street was bailed out of its crisis by cutting vital
public services! Any chance we can get that added? I realize that this list is not meant to include every grievance, but this is incredibly important and central to the damage done by Wall Street specifically, as opposed to capitalism as a whole. Frankly, we would not be occupying Liberty Park now if it weren't for the economic crisis - that's what set all this in motion. To not include it here seems like a major omission, and may make it harder to do outreach to the public sector unions that have started supporting us. Doug
On Sep 30, 2011, at 5:30 AM, Drew <dhornbein@gmail.com> wrote: http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declarationof-the-occupation-of-new-yorkcity/ spread this far and wide! Short code: http://nycga.cc/?p=780 print for saturday
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of jemcgloin@verizon.net september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] Re: ATTN TWEETERS: Tomorrow"s march moved to Foley Square--correct yr info! Wednesday, October 05, 2011 6:05:33 PM
Once again 'diversity of tactics' cuts both ways. It is possible to use the system against itself sometimes. Sometimes it makes sense to take the streets, but freedom of assembly is not our only goal.
On 10/05/11, Will Gauss<willgauss@gmail.com> wrote: That changes a lot, thank you for the clarification that today's march is not OWS. In that case, GA has no authority over it. I still stand firm however that we put a resolution which declares that we do not recognize a need for permits as legal or just and refuse to capitulate to such mechanisms of control as them. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 5, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote: That's correct. Today's rally and march were called by other groups, not OWS, and those groups include a lot of public workers who can be fired if they get arrested, which we need to take into account. Doug On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Aaron Gemmill <gemmill@gmail.com> wrote: It's my understanding that this march isn't directly organized by OWS, but by several groups sympathetic to OWS. By what authority would the GA restrict other groups from organizing their own assemblies as they see fit? Permitting creates a safe space for a much larger group of people to express their solidarity with OWS than would be able to in circumstances which would put them at risk for arrest, ticketing, etc.
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Will Gauss <willgauss@gmail.com> wrote: Then the Supreme Court decided unjustly and in contravention of liberty. Looks like another decision which must be overturned, or made irrelevant by mass civil disobedience. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2011, at 7:39 PM, Gabriel Johnson <gabjoh2@gmail.com> wrote: Okay but the Supreme Court disagrees. --glj On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 7:25 PM, hextic <willgauss@gmail.com> wrote: It is too late to put this to GA attention, so I will tweet now on the
one condition that we make an effort to pass a resolution that in the future we completely reject the entire idea of requiring a "permit" to exercise Constitutionally guaranteed rights. Of what possible, conceivable use is a freedom of speech and assembly which we must ask for? Asking for permissions implies legitimacy of a "no" answer. The entire purpose of this freedom is to give us the ability to unilaterally assert ourselves when our representatives fail to represent us. The requirement of a permit is a direct nullification of what is an unbridgeable right. On Oct 4, 6:35 pm, Conor Toms Reed <conortomasr...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, OWS twitter-squad. Please update your info tweets to note that the > mass 4:30pm rally tomorrow at City Hall Park has been moved to Foley Square > so it can be given a marching permit (i.e. essentially no risk of arrest). > > https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=282473051782707 > > thanks! > -Conor
-aarongemmill.com tomorrownowforever.com robotpedagogue.com aarongemmill.tumblr.com
september17@googlegroups.com on behalf of Sarah september17@googlegroups.com Re: Re: [september17discuss] Re: OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1 Wednesday, October 05, 2011 9:34:36 PM
Hi everyone! I don't think you know me personally. I've spent some time down at the occupation and have done radical political activism in NYC on and off for 10 years now. I'm 25 years old. I have some thoughts about the question of issuing demands which I would like to share. Take them or leave them, but I feel they will resonate with at least some of the people having this discussion. I see reasons both for and against issuing a unified demand, and am trying to envision a course of action which can embrace the best of both options. What I like about the demands is the possibility of leveraging the massive appeal and support that OWS is building towards a concrete statement and goal. What I am wary of is risking the appropriation of a potentially revolutionary movement to achieve only some minor, piecemeal reforms that do not question the power dynamics which have allowed this corruption and exploitation to continue for as long as it has. What I would love to see from OWS is a long-term movement based on mutual aid where members of the 99% help each other combat poverty and economic subjugation through a whole range of grassroots programs and initiatives -- fighting evictions, creating alternate micro-economies, changing policies, and so much more. My idea of how this can be imagined as part of a collective demand (if only a symbolic one) is this: In 2008, 700 billion was given to the corrupt bankers to bail out the economy they'd crash. They lined their pockets and let the rest of us sink. We the 99% can do a better job bailing out ourselves. Over time, as the occupation continues, we can support these "people's bailout" initiatives through our people power and funds we raise. As our efforts become more successful, we can point to them and say that our innovative, horizontal approaches WORK, and our very simple, very radical demand is this: That the US gov't ought to take back the $700B given to Wall Street, and put it in the hands of the people, because we are best able to help ourselves. How likely is it that this vast amount of money will every change hands? Very unlikely, of course. But what is important is that at no point will we put our hopes for change in the hands of those who will never have our interests at heart. We should have learned that lesson by now from the many disappointments of the Obama administration. I think that such a clear, simple demand, however unrealistic, will have enormous appeal for many people. And whether or not the powers that be ever grant it, we will be fulfilling the demand ourselves, from the very beginning. Thanks for listening. Solidarity, Sarah On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 5:32 PM, <jemcgloin@verizon.net> wrote:
Yes large majorities want to tax the rich to pay for jobs.
On 10/05/11, Gabriel Johnson<gabjoh2@gmail.com> wrote: I just want to second Barry's point on keeping it focused on finance; everything is interrelated, of course, but this is *Occupy Wall Street* and a lot of the side ones are going to have a lot of our natural allies dismiss us. I just also might add some sort of taxing the rich plank; it's something enormously popular, all across the (even American) political spectrum. --glj On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Winter Siroco <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote: I hope that people are for major and enduring transformations, not for minor reforms. Cesar On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 7:24 AM, Barry Ritholtz <ritholtz@optonline.net> wrote:
Folks:
In terms of goals and desires, the simpler and more fundamental a list, the more like that actual change can be effected. I would keep it focused on finance (ie. Wall Street) and on issues that actually matter and can be a rallying cry for the nation. We don't want a top 10 list -- at least not as the main goals -- it becomes too unfocused. I suggest 3 goals, with specific political action to follow 1. Get dirty Wall St Money out of politics/legislative process 2. No more bailouts 3. End TBTF banks The legislative goals of each could be as follows: 1. CAMPAIGN FINANCE: Constitutional amendment changing the rules of campaign finance, providing public finance, removing the massive inflow of cash -- I believe Dylan called auctioning our Congress to the highest bidder. A national campaign to get that amendment on every ballot in every state is a very doable goal. (Marketing: "Take Congress back from Wall St!") 2. BAILOUTS: No more bailouts is obvious -- time to end private gains and socialized losses of crony capitalism (Marketing: "Bring Back Real Capitalism!" ) 3. TBTF: As George Shultz famously said, "If they're too big to fail, make them smaller." The bailouts have made the TBTF banks an even bigger, less competitive
oligarchy. Bring back competition by limiting the size of these, either in terms of % of deposits or dollar amounts. Many ways to accomplish this, including an FDIC caps on insurance would be effective. (Bring now private citizen Sheila Bair into the discussion) These are all doable measurable goals, that can have a real impact on legislation, the economy and taxes. But do understand this: Whatever is accomplished will be temporary without campaign finance reform . . .
Barry L. Ritholtz CEO, Director of Equity Research Fusion IQ 535 Fifth Avenue, 25th floor New York, NY 10017 212-661-2022 x7104 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Big Picture: Macro perspectives on the Capital Markets, Economy, and Geopolitics http://www.ritholtz.com/
On Oct 4, 2011, at 6:52 PM, George Washington wrote: Since so many people think there is already an official list of demands, I wrote this to clear the air:
No, There Is NOT a List of Official Demands from the Protesters

As a side note, this guy has an interesting list: 1) End the Collusion Between Government and Large Corporations/Banks, So That Our Elected Leaders Are Actually Representing the Interests of the People (the 99%) and Not Just Their Rich Donors (the 1%). 2) Investigate Wall Street and Hold Senior Executives Accountable for the Destruction in Wealth that has Devastated Millions of People. 3) Return the Power of Coining Money to the U.S. Treasury and Return to Sound Money 4) Limit the Size, Scope and Power of Banks so that None are Ever Again Too Big to Fail and in Need to Taxpayer Bailouts
5) Eliminate Personhood Legal Status for Corporations 6) Repeal the Patriot Act, End the War on Drugs and Protect Civil Liberties 7) End All Imperial Wars of Aggression, Bring the Troops Home from All Countries, Cut the Military Budget and Limit The Military Role to Protection of the Homeland Curious if both liberals and conservatives on this list informally (and confidentially) agree.
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Yves Smith <yves@nakedcapitalism.com> wrote: Right now, more people show up for work every day at Goldman than have shown up for these protests. We know that the grievances of the protestors are widely shared. But the risk is that demands lead to some sort of Potemkin negotations or dismissals in the press as to how unrealistic the demands are ("Throw Wall Street execs in jail! We tried that, they succeeded in getting the laws gutted so there is no way to do that. So you want us to become a nation of vigilantes?") The more people show up, continue to look like a good cross section of America, and make statements individually (via sites like We are the 99%, via their placards or when interviewed with the press) that resonate with people, the more the space of what is possible gets bigger. This is starting to change what it is acceptable to say in the media. That's very good initial progress.
On Oct 4, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Michael Hudson wrote:
I should have added that it is easiest to agree on what the SYMPTOMS are. The economy is dying. Its being killed by financial mismanagers. Its polarizing. Neither party is addressing the root causes thats really why these guys are out there. Michael On 10/4/11 3:56 PM, "Yves Smith" <yves@nakedcapitalism.com> wrote: My concern re stating formal and explicit demands is that the officialdom will start an effort to pretend to address the demands or negotiate with "leaders" as a way to keep more people from turning out. A sustained effort that keeps
growing, even it it grows slowly (and the growth may not be slow) is really disconcerting to the officialdom. It's something they cant contain and don't know how to deal with. My reader tell me the movement in Spain developed along precisely these lines, there were no formal overarching goals/demand articulated, but there was a lot of discussion among various groups at the local level as to what their grievances were. They also said the protests were transformational on a broader social level. Letting it percolate slowly seems to have been very powerful. It helps for people to find their voice. It's pretty obvious what the protestors want. That's why the call for demands is awfully disingenuous.
On Oct 4, 2011, at 3:34 PM, Matthew Taibbi wrote: Let me ask you a question. If this were the Iraq war you were protesting instead of Wall Street corruption, would it be "naive" to demand a withdrawal from Iraq? Are you saying it's "naive" because it's unreasonable to expect results? I don't
understand the use of that word in this context. --- On Tue, 10/4/11, Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote: From: Cesar <wintersiroco@gm ail.com> Subject: Re: OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1 To: "Matthew Taibbi" <m_taibbi@yahoo. com> Cc: "Yves Smith" <yves@nakedcapit alism.com>, "Dylan Ratigan" <dylanratigan@gm ail.com>, "Michael Hudson" <michael.hudson@ earthlink.net>, "WilliamBlack" <blackw@umkc.ed u>, "David DeGraw" <AmpedStatus@a mpedstatus.com>, "september17@goo glegroups.com" <september17@goo glegroups.com>, "yotam.marom@g mail.com"
<yotam.marom@g mail.com>, "vlad@glassbeadco llective.com" <vlad@glassbeadco llective.com>, "dissector@mediac hannel.org" <dissector@mediac hannel.org>, "Nomi" <nomi@nomiprins. com>, "Michael" <mh@michaelhudson.com>, "Mike Papantonio" <MPapantonio@le vinlaw.com>, "MichaelKrieger" <michael@kamlp.c om>, "George Washington" <georgewashington .911blogger@gmail .com>, "Tyler Durden" <tyler@zerohedge. org>, "ellenhbrown@gm ail.com" <ellenhbrown@gm ail.com>, "Karl" <karl@denninger.n et>, "Barry" <thebigpicture@op tonline.net>, "Kevin Zeese" <kbzeese@gmail.co
m>, "max" <maxkeiser@gmail .com>, "Matt" <M_TAIBBI@yah oo.com>, "Simon" <baselinescenario @gmail.com>, "Zach" <carter.zach@gmai l.com>, "David CayJohnston" <dcjohn01@law.sy r.edu>, "Bill Laggner" <laggner@bearing asset.com>, "Paul" <paulcraigroberts @yahoo.com>, "Noam Chomsky" <chomsky@mit.ed u>, "BillMoyers" <moyersb@moyers media.com>, "ggreenwald@salo n.com" <ggreenwald@salo n.com>, "glen.ford@blacka gendareport.com" <glen.ford@blacka gendareport.com>, "oftwomindz@com cast.net" <oftwomindz@com cast.net> Date: Tuesday, October 4, 2011, 3:05 PM
I am for elaborating collective discourse, but perhaps better in terms of general GOALS rather than demands. Demads are naive at this point, to put it shoftly. This is not incompatible with strategic actions that may achieve short term victories. Due to our location I think we should provide our view of the economic facts, and prioritize our actions toward short term and long term solutions. Regarding the elaboration of collective discourse, perhaps we should try some form of open source or similar wikiprocess that would facilitate multiple contributions from diverse viewpoints. Cesar Sent from phone
On Oct 4, 2011, at 10:40 AM, Matthew Taibbi <m_taibbi@yahoo.c om <xmsg://128/mc/comp ose? to=m_taibbi@yahoo .com> > wrote: I disagree with the notion that there shouldn't be demands. I think there should be a few simple ones. It's not a MSM conspirac y when the press wonders what the movemen t wants or who is leading it. I think there are
a lot of people in the press and even on Wall Street who are ready to support the movemen t wholehea rtedly, if it could articulate some specifics. If OWS could identify a few basic problems -- overconcentra tion of capital, regulator y capture, overween ing influence of money on politics, excess financiali
zation of the economy, tax unfairnes s, etc -and propose some first-step solutions to all of those things (break up the banks, force bailout recipients to give up lobbying, end the carried interest and capital gains exemptio ns as Michael points out, etc), you'd have more allies, you'd be educating
the public about a subject that it has a tough time getting real informati on about through normal media, and it would prevent the other side of the debate from being able to define the movemen t in their own (inevitabl y unflatteri ng) terms. The only thing preventin g millions
of people from going out onto the streets on their own is that they don't understa nd how Wall Street works or what it does. That to me is why the movemen t needs to be specific. It has a responsib ility to explain these problems to the general public and to show that solutions do exist and that they're attainabl
e. People I think need more than just the knowledg e that they can protest -they need to believe that they can fix things and that someone out there has the answers. And a lot of the people on this email list do have the answers and could provide that leadershi p that is so desperate ly needed.
--- On Tue, 10/4/11, Dylan Ratigan <dylanrat igan@gm ail.com <xmsg://128 /mc/comp ose? to=dylanr atigan@g mail.com >> wrote: F r o m : D y l a n R a t i g a n < d
y l a n r a t i g a n @ g m a i l . c o m < x m s g : / / 1 2 8 / m c / c o
m p o s e ? t o = d y l a n r a t i g a n @ g m a i l . c o m > > S u b j e
c t : R e : O c c u p y W a l l S t r e e t E c o n o m i c S t a t e m e n t
D r a f t 1 T o : " Y v e s S m i t h " < y v e s @ n a k e d c a p i t a l

i s m . c o m < x m s g : / / 1 2 8 / m c / c o m p o s e ? t o = y v e s @
n a k e d c a p i t a l i s m . c o m > > C c : " M i c h a e l H u d s o n

" < m i c h a e l . h u d s o n @ e a r t h l i n k . n e t < x m s g : / /

1 2 8 / m c / c o m p o s e ? t o = m i c h a e l . h u d s o n @ e a r t h l
i n k . n e t > > , " B l a c k , W i l l i a m " < b l a c k w @ u m k c . e

d u < x m s g : / / 1 2 8 / m c / c o m p o s e ? t o = b l a c k w @ u m k
c . e d u > > , " D a v i d D e G r a w " < A m p e d S t a t u s @ a m p e d

s t a t u s . c o m < x m s g : / / 1 2 8 / m c / c o m p o s e ? t o = A m
p e d S t a t u s @ a m p e d s t a t u s . c o m > > , " s e p t e m b e r 1

7 @ g o o g l e g r o u p s . c o m < x m s g : / / 1 2 8 / m c / c o m p o
s e ? t o = s e p t e m b e r 1 7 @ g o o g l e g r o u p s . c o m > " < s e

p t e m b e r 1 7 @ g o o g l e g r o u p s . c o m < x m s g : / / 1 2 8 /

USDOR 0911-1013 Ab - Part20

Enviado por

Dados do documento

Título original

Direitos autorais

Formatos disponíveis

Compartilhar este documento

Compartilhar ou incorporar documento

Opções de compartilhamento

Você considera este documento útil?

Este conteúdo é inapropriado?

Direitos autorais:

Formatos disponíveis

USDOR 0911-1013 Ab - Part20

Enviado por

Direitos autorais:

Formatos disponíveis

Emails come from PST files that were linked to a post on biggovernment.com by Thomas Ryan. PDF by www.teapartycheer.

> > > > T h e y u s e d o u r t a x d o l l a r s t o g i v e t h e m s e

s . > > > > A t a t i m e o f n a t i o n a l c r i s i s , w i t h c a l

e a k i n g b o n u s e s . > > > > A s a r e s u l t o f t h e i r a c t

> > > > A c c o r d i n g t o t h e N a t i o n a l A c a d e m y o f S c

n o m i c e l i t e . > > > > I n t h e U S , m i l l i o n a i r e h o u

f o f t h e e n t i r e U S p o p u l a t i o n . > > > > A s w e s a i d

s w i t h > > a l i g n e d i n t e r e s t s . > > > > O u r f a m i l

r e s s i o n f o r l o n g > > e n o u g h . > > > > P l e a s e j o i

e . > > > > > > > >

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Cc:

-J.A. Myerson http://www.jamyerson.com 347.688.0241

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> > >

> > > > >

-Seamos realistas, hagamos lo imposible ~ che

From: To: Cc: Subject: Date:

-Seamos realistas, hagamos lo imposible ~ che

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

>>> >> > >

-Seamos realistas, hagamos lo imposible ~ che

From: To: Subject: Date:

-J.A. Myerson http://www.jamyerson.com 347.688.0241

From: To: Subject: Date:

-J.A. Myerson http://www.jamyerson.com 347.688.0241

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

> > >

-J.A. Myerson http://www.jamyerson.com 347.688.0241

From: To: Subject: Date:

-J.A. Myerson http://www.jamyerson.com 347.688.0241

From: To: Subject: Date:

-J.A. Myerson http://www.jamyerson.com 347.688.0241

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/10/02/2011-1002_nypd_video_shows_cops_warning_occupy_wall_street_protesters_they_could_be_arrest.html#ixzz1ZeAnzo26 Cesar

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

>>> >> >

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date:

>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>

From: To: Subject: Date:

From: To: Subject: Date: