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thread : what do you do for... rangers?
started at 08-02-06 03:34 pm by nyaricus
visit at http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=170400
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[post 1]
author : nyaricus
date : 08-02-06 03:34 pm
title : what do you do for... rangers?

well, it's been long enough, so i want to know... what do you do for rangers? do
you give them new combat styles? make them spell-less (and no, those ones from
comwar don't count ;))? something else entirely?

what do you do?

personally, i am going to be taking the ranger class, the scout class and a bunch
of original classes from all over the net (en world and wizards, mainly) and
combining them into one skillsy outdoorsy warrior class. i want a competent class
which will go with light weapons and likely a lot of archery as well. i want to
drop the spells, the animal companion, the combat styles, the ranger class in
general (it will, however, make a comback as a prc based off of aragorn and his
group of rangers from lotr) and make a outdoor warrior class which will replace
it. 6 skp/level will likely make it in, but the main thing is i am not sure about
the bab and whether it'll be 3/4 or 1/1. i guess once i really get into this
project, i will see what becomes of it. likely this class will be called the
scout, since i want it to be a class from any enviroment, and not just the
archetypical woodlands the ranger is from (the working name before this was
'woodsman', in fact, but i want it to be more 'all-encompassing' than that.

but for yourselves: what do you do?

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[post 2]
author : smootrk
date : 08-02-06 04:14 pm

mainly, the additional combat styles (from a dragon magazine article primarily) do
wonders for making rangers distinct from each other. additionally, the effective
feats granted by the alternate combat styles are great lead-ins to other feats and
prcs to further diversify them.

going further, i would seriously consider beefing up the animal companion to make
the critter have reasonable survivability - possibly making the critter equivalent
to the druid's. i would consider dropping most/all spellcasting for this
reasonable change.

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[post 3]
author : nyaricus
date : 08-02-06 05:15 pm

going further, i would seriously consider beefing up the animal companion to make
the critter have reasonable survivability - possibly making the critter equivalent
to the druid's. i would consider dropping most/all spellcasting for this
reasonable change.
well, in my games as-is, a rangers animal companion is his level -3. not quite up
to par with druids, but he has a bunch of compensate.

also, i use some alternative combat styles, like this one:

weapon specialist combat style:

combat style - weapon focus
improved combat style - weapon specialization
combat style mastery - improved critical

i also want there to be a spear style, but there are few feats which are really
that great for this style... i've heard passingly of a book about wilderness stuff
which supposedly has a great spear-fighter in there. anyone have it and willing to
cough up the details of it?

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[post 4]
author : narsil
date : 08-02-06 05:20 pm

i swap the ranger's spellcasting for a better animal companion, and at level 6,
they gain the benefit of full dex bonus while wearing light armour. this bonus
improves to medium at level 12

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[post 5]
author : arkhandus
date : 08-02-06 05:29 pm

"rhunarian rangers have slightly more skill flexibility than those presented in
the player's handbook. as a houserule, a ranger of rhunaria adds knowledge
[spirits] (int) to his or her list of ranger class skills, and they get a base of
6 skill points per level rather than 4."

from my rhunaria campaign website. otherwise identical to standard 3.0e ranger.

my aurelian homebrew's version of the ranger, along with the archer variant, are
of course already posted in my aurelia thread (link in sig). the archer variant
is nonmagical and focused on ranged weapons primarily (not just bows, though they
tend to work best for it), with fewer favored enemies and many more class features
for ranged and (occasionally) melee combat, including a few bonus ranged-attack
feats.

the standard ranger of aurelia has d8 hp, 6 sp/level, full bab, strong fortitude,
a few extra class skills (like 'all creature lore skills' as knowledge class
skills), more useful favored enemy (applied to attack, damage, ac, and some
skills; damage bonus is the only one lost against constructs/undead/etc.), an
option for replacing further fes with minor, nearly-feat-equivalent benefits (like
dual wield or hunter's guile), a broader selection of battle styles (though just
gained at 2nd-level), a speed style later on for swiftness or overcoming terrain,
shield other for an animal companion 1/day at upper levels, and a few other upper-
level goodies.
the other two ranger variants for aurelia, not yet quite complete enough for
posting, are the scout and the seeker. 'scout' rangers get fewer spells, fewer
favored enemies, and only a few of the standard ranger's other abilities, but also
gain a bit of sneak attack progression, an incremental skill/anti-trap benefit
called keen awareness, a few bonus feats, and just a bit more. i'll likely give
scouts d10 hd in exchange for something else. 'seeker' rangers are more oriented
towards fey, nature magic, and mobility, being essentially the bridge between
standard rangers and druids. seekers get spellcasting just a bit weaker than a
bard's, but have lower skill points and base attack than other rangers do, and
their strong saves are reflex and will. seekers lack some of the standard
ranger's special abilities, but still get full favored enemy progression and some
tracking benefits. in exchange for their losses and drawbacks compared to other
rangers, the seeker gets extra abilities like fey bond, greater combat casting,
superior combat casting, trackless step, woodland stride, timeless body, and some
bonus feats.

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[post 6]
author : smootrk
date : 08-02-06 05:35 pm

look to the polearm article for ideas for spear feats. no reason you cant make
reasonably comparable feats that work for the slightly smaller spear.

another good ranger style to consider is:

strong arm (a power attack/cleave/great cleave tree) or
mounted (you guessed it, mounted combat)

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[post 7]
author : nyaricus
date : 08-02-06 05:54 pm

look to the polearm article for ideas for spear feats. no reason you cant make
reasonably comparable feats that work for the slightly smaller spear.

another good ranger style to consider is:

strong arm (a power attack/cleave/great cleave tree) or
mounted (you guessed it, mounted combat)
the only problem with those are is that pretty much any character can get those by
level 4. as a ranger, you'll be getting a rather useless feat at level 11. bleck.

so, you need better feats for those levels, rather than having some low-level
feats which were acessable back when a few kobolds made you whimper.

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[post 8]
author : smootrk
date : 08-02-06 06:24 pm

the only problem with those are is that pretty much any character can get those by
level 4. as a ranger, you'll be getting a rather useless feat at level 11. bleck.

so, you need better feats for those levels, rather than having some low-level
feats which were acessable back when a few kobolds made you whimper.
i think you are overlooking the usefulness of certain combinations of the
'effective feats' for use in prc prerequisites, or for some of the advanced feats
which require prereq's (such as in the phb2). anyway, i do see your point as well
- maybe tweaking the styles with additions from the phb2 may help the power-level
conundrum.

i will try and do a little brainstorming for you. for now though, i have to head
off to work this evening, but tomorrow i will break out some books and see if
there are some good options that you can incorporate into your ranger-redesign.

the ranger is one of my favorite archetypes, yet i have disliked all the 3.x
treatments thusfar. your concept seems more in-line with my thinking (so far), so
i would love to see your final design.

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[post 9]
author : tonguez
date : 08-04-06 12:59 am

sea ranger (hautai) � master fisherman, mariners and navigators the sea ranger is
the master of the open sea, out beyond the protection of the reef sailing the
large sailing craft, casting nets and lines out against sharks and other monsters
of the deep.

bab - as ranger
saves � as ranger

the sea ranger

all of the following are class features of the {class}.

weapon and armor proficiency: the sea ranger is proficient with all simple and
martial weapons, and light armor

spells: see below

track: in addition to the standard track ability the sea ranger can also �track�
creatures through the water.
water conditions dc: clear water -2 ,calm surface �1, slightly murky water +0,
small waves +0, medium, choppy waves +1, large waves +2, obscuring clouds of silt
+2, storm waves +4
distance dc: within 20' of target 10, 20' to 30' apart 15, more than 30' apart
+1/10'

maritime skills: due to the extensive training that the sea ranger receives in and
around the water, she automatically gains training and competency bonuses to the
following skills at 1st level:
swim+4 profession (sailing) +2, profession (navigator) +2 (training is assumed)

aquatic combat: as master hunter of big game fish like sharks the sea ranger is
trained in the best techniques and methods for surviving combat both when on or in
the water. the sea ranger gains a bonus to listen, move silently,sense motive, and
spot checks when using these skills against creatures found in at sea whether deep
water or shallows (including shoreline). likewise, she gets the same bonus to
weapon damage rolls against these creatures. deep water+1 shallows/shore+2
at level 8 the bonuses increase to deep water+2 shallows/shore+4 deep water
refers to anywhere the character can not touch the bottom whilst fully submerged
endure elements: used to the dangers of the sea the sea ranger gains +2 bonus to
all fort saves made against weather effects (cold, wind, heat), drowning and
starvation.

improved swim (new feat)� the character is able to swim at � their base speed as
a move action or at their base speed as a full round action. additionally they do
not suffer the �1 penalty for swimming underwater (but still drown as per usual if
they run out of breath)

sea legs: a sea ranger spends years living and working on the water, and has
learned to stay on her feet during fair weather and foul. at 3rd level, a sea
ranger gains a +2 competence bonus to all balance checks. furthermore, a
successful check allows a full move instead of a half move. a failed check still
means no movement at all.

orientation: a mariner has an innate sense of their location and by reading the
combination of swells, prevailing winds, stars and water salinity can always
locate the direction of and predict the distance (in days of travel) to his home
island. the mariner can also locate other islands they have been to for more than
1 day with a prof navigator check dc 15
at 5th level with a prof navigator check dc 15 the mariner can locate the
direction of any landmass within 50 miles

weather sense: with a successful survival check a sea ranger can predict the
weather for the next few days. the dc is 10+2 per day (eg weather in 3 days has dc
16 (10+6)).

oceans bounty: the sea ranger is a master fisherman and can find and locate
schools of fish as required. the sea ranger can also locate drinkable water at sea
(often by following rain clouds). the oceans bounty requires 1 hour to locate

freedom of movement: starting at 12th level, a sea ranger knows how to use her
abilities and weapons to their best effect when underwater. as a result, when
underwater, she suffers no penalties to movement or attack rolls as if she were
the recipient of the freedom of movement spell
this is an extraordinary ability.

hold breath: at 16th level, a sea ranger has learned how to survive underwater for
extended periods of time. she can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal
constitution x4, instead of double con as normal

1st-level ranger spells

alarm
animal friendship
delay poison
detect animals or plants
detect snares and pits
entangle
magic fang
obscuring mist
pass without trace
read magic
resist elements
speak with animals
summon nature's ally i

2nd-level ranger spells

animal messenger
cure light wounds
detect chaos/evil/good/law
hold animal
locate object
protection from elements
sleep
snare
summon nature's ally ii

3rd-level ranger spells

cure moderate wounds
greater magic fang
gust of wind
neutralize poison
plant growth
remove disease
summon nature's ally iii
water walk
water breathing

4th-level ranger spells

sending
cure serious wounds
freedom of movement
nondetection
polymorph self
summon nature's ally iv
wind wall

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[post 10]
author : tonguez
date : 08-04-06 01:52 am

whale rider prc

amongst the people of the south seas whales are revered as lords of the ocean,
children of the sea god. mortal races live in awe of the mighty beasts and are
humbled by the beauty of their song.

the whale rider become attuned to the song of the whales (and their cousins
porpoise and the dolphins), they learn to sing the song of the whales, become
companions to the whales and even learn to ride upon the mighty beasts.

alignment any
hit dice d8
bab - as cleric
fort good
skills 4+int
animal empathy (cha,exclusive skill),concentration (con),intuit direction (wis),
knowledge (nature)(int), listen (wis), perform(cha), profession (wis), speak
language (none), swim (str),and survival (wis)

requirements
skills swim 6 ranks, animal empathy 8 ranks, listen 8 ranks
feats endurance
other: the character has had an encounter with a cetacean whilst swimming
(including drowning if applicable ie was saved by a dolphin)
abilities per level
1 ride skill, improved swim, hold breath x3

2 whale companion, mounted combat,

3 hold breath x4, whale song (listen)

4 hold breath x 5, blind fight

5 water breathing (1 hour), whale song (speak)

6, deep diving, song of the sea (rebuke)

7 whale call, water breathing (4 hours)

8 whale song (emotion), blindsight

9 song of the sea (command)

10 aquatic nature

ride skill: the whale rider gains character level +2 ranks in this unique skill.
the skill is considered a class skill and can be increased normally there are no
large land animals imc and so no �standard� ride skill. however this is the same
skill granted as an ability

improved swim (new feat)� the character is able to swim at � their base speed as a
move action or at their base speed as a full round action. additionally they do
not suffer the �1 penalty for swimming underwater (but still drown as per usual if
they run out of breath)

whale companion � the whale rider is able to summon a cetacean (whale or dolphin)
who is willing to carry the rider on its back. the cetacean has an intelligence
score of at least 6 and speaks the language of the whale song (which may or may
not be aquan)

hold breath � a normal character is able to hold their breath for constitution x 2
rounds. a whale rider through constant practice is able to extend this for much
longer periods (initially con x 3 etc)

mounted combat � the whale rider can use the mounted combat feat whilst riding her
whale/dolphin companion

deep diving � the whale rider does not suffer any ill effects from deep water
(either due to pressure or cold)

blind sight � the whale rider is so attuned to the sounds around her that she is
able to 'see' by sound alone.

whale song (listen) the whale rider is able to understand the song of various
cetaceans (whales and dolphins etc). whale song travels for up to a mile and is
likely to have information about weather conditions, food sources, sharks and
other hazards in or on the water within a 1-mile radius. the whale rider should
make a wis mod+ level check vs dc 15 to determine if a required piece of
information is heard in the song (use the bardic knowledge chart to determine
results)
whale song (speak) the whale rider has gained mastery of the language of the whale
song and is able to ask up to 3 questions (per day) of all cetaceans (and other
listeners (eg other whale riders, merfolk etc). the whale rider may ask and (be
informed) about the weather conditions, plants, minerals, ships, seabed
topography, people, general animal population, presence of marine creatures,
presence of powerful unnatural creatures, or even the general state of the
surrounding sea in a 1 mile radius.

whale call: the whale rider is able to call to all cetaceans in a 1-mile radius,
any cetaceans in the area they will gather within 1d6 minutes and respond
positively to any reasonable request

whale song (emotion) � by causing subtle changes in the ambient song the whale
rider is able to affect the emotions of all creatures able to hear her within
100ft (+10ft per level). the effects are like those of the emotion spell

water breathing � the whale rider is able to breathe underwater for up to 4 hours
allowing them to dive to great depths

song of the sea - the whale rider can use the whale song to command other sea
animals and beasts (sharks, fish, octopi, sea lions etc). initially she can only
rebuke non-cetaceans, however as she gains greater understanding of the song she
also gains the ability to give basic commands to non-cetaceans. the whale rider
must make a perform check dc 10+creature int mod to succeed

aquatic � the whale rider has become an aquatic creature as at home in the water
as on land. the character suffers no penalties wshen swimming and is able to
breath water for an indefinite period of time (add aquatic to the characters
creature type (eg humanoid, aquatic)

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[post 11]
author : shades of green
date : 08-04-06 02:48 am

my general idea for rangers was to replace their favoured enemy ability with a
sneak attack ability, reflecting their skill with hunting, stalking prey, and
wilderness guerilla tactics; i was also thinking about cutting some of their
spells (how many?) in exchange for woodland stride and trackless step, reflecting
keen knowledge of moving through nature quickly and untraceably.

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[post 12]
author : nyaricus
date : 08-04-06 03:41 am

i think you are overlooking the usefulness of certain combinations of the

'effective feats' for use in prc prerequisites, or for some of the advanced feats
which require prereq's (such as in the phb2).
useful combinations, yea. but if a 4th level twf ranger with the right feats and a
11th level ranger with cavalier are nearly exactly identical, what's that point?
it's just not a great fix, imo, which is why we need better mounted combat feats.
if knights were the tanks of the day, then lets see some feats to back that up.

anyway, i do see your point as well - maybe tweaking the styles with additions
from the phb2 may help the power-level conundrum.

i will try and do a little brainstorming for you. for now though, i have to head
off to work this evening, but tomorrow i will break out some books and see if
there are some good options that you can incorporate into your ranger-redesign.
okay dude, that's be awesome :) every little bit helps, of course.

the ranger is one of my favorite archetypes,
treatments thusfar. your concept seems more
i would love to see your final design.
yeah, i am going to have to see what ebcomes
leaning towards 3/4 bab just so i can fit in
mind :]
yet i have disliked all the 3.x
in-line with my thinking (so far), so
of it. at this point, i am even
all of the neat abilities i have in

like i said, you'll be seeing more in the upcoming months.

tonguez, nice job dude; i'll have to look it over when i'm not about to fall
asleep :)

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[post 13]
author : aus_snow
date : 08-04-06 04:17 am

what do i do?

well, i look at the core ranger class, think "gee, that sucks", and proceed to
make a base class only related by name and other minor connections.

it's basically a wilderness 'fighter' (i.e., made up of grunt + bonus feats).

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[post 14]
author : spatzimaus
date : 08-04-06 11:17 am

back after 3e came out, we reworked the ranger like this:

> hd -> d8, sp -> 6/level

> instead of the twf feats, the ranger picks one pseudo-feat at 2, one at 6, and
one at 10. (pseudo- because they still keep the light armor limitation) these
feats are from a list of 15 or so feats; generally speaking these are all weapon-
related. twf feats, bow feats, weapon focus, combat reflexes, that sort of thing;
basically a shortened version of the fighter list.
> we reworked favored enemy. instead of 1 at level 1, 2/1 at 5, 3/2/1 at 10,
4/3/2/1 at 15, and 5/4/3/2/1 at 20, we said that at 1,3,5,7,9, and 11-20, the
ranger put +1 into one favored enemy group. it's still 15 points, but now it's
more flexible; the limit was that you couldn't have more than 2 in any one group
from 1-4, 3 from 5-9, and so on.

for 3.5e, the phb ranger was changed to something disturbingly close to our setup.
so, all we did was the favored enemy change; instead of 2 at 1, 2+2 at 5, 2+2+2 at
10, etc., we gave 1 point at 1-10 and 2 points at 11-20, with the caveat that no
group could have more than (level/2) points (except that at level 1, you can of
course put 1 point into something). maybe we should have tied it to a skill, like
knowledge(nature).
oh, and we also added some of the other suggested combat styles, like one for
polearms.

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[post 15]
author : scmrks
date : 08-04-06 02:26 pm

for my camapaigns i use the scout and wilderness rogue variant as the wilderness
skirmishers so i changed the ranger back into the nature magic wilderness warrior.
i gave the ranger a d10 hit die, made his reflex save poor, and took away evasion.
for the combat style i let the ranger take any feat tree that he qualifies for.
the feats do not stop working in armor heavier than light armor. animal companion
gets max hit points and the ranger's favored enemy bonuses.
because favored enemy is so dependant on the dm's adventure i give rangers bonus
spells so they can use spell's like hunter's mercy or blade thirst in combat when
favored enemies aren't around. so rangers get 1 bonus spell for each spell level
they have. so at 4th level they get 1 spell instead of 0.
rangers also lose camouflage and hide in plain site. ranger's have several spells
that give +10 to hide and move silently and swift invisibilty can make them
disappear from sight. instead i give them improved spell casting which gives them
+2 caster level and slippery mind. i chose slippery mind with the idea that any
warrior living in the domain of the fey better build his mental defenses to fight
off their charms and enchantments.
the bonus spell and improved spellcasting are ideas i got from the forgotten
raelms book champions of valor. it is given as substitution levels for rangers of
mystra.

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[post 16]
author : airwalkrr
date : 08-06-06 02:05 am

i give rangers a bonus feat at 16th level to continue their weapon fighting style.
i also give them a rogue special ability at levels 12 and 18, but limit their
options to defensive roll, improved evasion, skill mastery, and opportunist
(crippling strike, slippery mind, and feat are not options). i reduce their reflex
save to a medium save (i developed a medium save progression that goes from +1 to
+9 at 20th). i swap the level endurance and track are gained (track is gained at
3rd, endurance at 1st; few pcs will cherry pick a class for endurance). i also
like the idea i heard from someone else that rangers have an animal companion that
is treated as a druid's level -3. i think i may have to yoink that.

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[post 17]
author : jrrneiklot
date : 08-06-06 02:47 am

i use a 1e ranger conversion that i did a while back. sadly, it's lost in
cyberspace due to my hard drive exploding. i have a hard copy somewhere, i'll see
if i can find it.

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the messages has been download from en world - morrus' d&d / d20 news & reviews
site at http://www.enworld.org at 09.08.2006 12:16:39