Howard Griswold Conference CallThursday, February 4, 2010 Partial Howard Griswold Conference calls: 218-844-3388 pin 966771# (6 mutes

& un-mutes), Thursdays at 8 p.m., Eastern Time. 6 Mutes and un-mutes

Conference Call is simulcast on:

www.TheREALPublicRadio.Net Starting in the first hour at 8 p.m.

Note: there is a hydrate water call Mondays, same time and number and pin #. Howards home number: 302-875-2653 (between 9:30, a.m, and 7:00, p.m.)
Mickeys debt collection call is 8:00 p.m., Eastern Time, Wednesday night. The number is 712 432 8773 and the pin number is 947975#.

All correspondence to: Gemini Investment Research Group, POB 398, Delmar, Del. 19940 (do not address mail to Howard Griswold since Howard has not taken up residence in that mailbox and since hes on good terms with his wife he isnt likely to in the foreseeable future.) "All" Howard's and GEMINI RESEARCH's information through the years, has been gathered, combined and collated into 3 "Home-Study Courses" and "Information packages" listed at www.peoples-rights.com "Mail Order" DONATIONS and/or Toll-Free 1-877-544-4718 (24 Hours F.A.Q. line) Dave DiReamer can be reached at: notaxman@dmv.com Peoples-rights has a new book available from The Informer: Just Who Really Owns the United States, the International Monetary Fund, Federal Reserve, World Bank, Your House, Your Car, Everythingthe Myth and the Reality. Hell take $45 for the book to help with ads, but $40 would be ok which includes shipping ($35 barebones minimum) www.peoples-rights.com c/o 1624 Savannah Road, Lewes, Delaware 19958 ******************** Note Mickey Paoletta has a new study course starting June 3rd, Wednesday at 8 pm., Eastern Time. The course will last for six Wednesdays. The first session was held on June 3rd. Send the fee ($250 MO) to: Mickey Paoletta, 1771 South Meadow Drive, Mechanicsburg, Penn. 17055 Fax the MO and letter to Dianne and shell give you the tel # and pin #. Put study course in the subject line of the e-mail Diannes telephone number is 570-388-0938 Dianne fax number is 866-390-2344

Diannes e-mail is: djell@epix.net *************************** Often you can find a transcript or a partial one for the weeks call at the following website: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruth ******************************************************************* When you arent talking please mute your phone!! It would be best if you mute your phone when you first come on, then un-mute it when you want to talk and then re-mute it. You can use the *6 button on your phone or use the phones mute button Speaker phones and cell phones are not desirable as they can chop up the call badly occasionally. If you are recording the call and leave the phone unintended, please mute!!!!! Note, on October 30th someone left the phone un-muted and coupled television audio into the phone making the conference call conversations very difficult. When you are not muted be careful of making noise such as breathing hard into the phones microphone or rubbing the mouthpiece or not reducing extraneous noise across the room. Cell phones can pick up wind noise when used outside and also if not in a primary reception zone can couple noise into the call. Excessive echoes and noise will terminate the conference call. Cell phones and speaker phones can cause echoes. Keep the call quiet, dont make Howard climb out of his mailbox and bop you one. ******************************************************************* Note: the telephone lines are usually quite noisy and therefore it would be prudent to slow your speech down otherwise your words and meaning will be lost. Suggestion to everyone (even Howard): Get a phone with a privacy or mute button. This is much more convenient than star-6 and more rapid to use. It can also be used as a cough button since it can be used rapidly. Try it, youll like it. ********************************************************************* {start of first file} [Howard] I dont get too much involved in the income tax fight because theres too many people out there preaching too much garbage to go out there and go against it. I dont bother with it. If you learn enough about the secured interest and learn what I teach about Congresses authority to make the law to impose income tax you would know what to do with your income tax. [caller] Can I find that out in that IRS course?

[Dave] Yes. Thats its called the Internal Revenue Service. If your earnings or money are from internal, the government, you do owe the tax and nobody can help you. If its not, if your earnings are your private money theyre not subject. [caller] About three weeks ago, Dave, you had a sounded like a monolog on the show and Id like to get a copy of that. Do you have a copy of it? [Dave] Send me an e-mail and I will forward to you the transcript, that summary, 38 years of research was in the transcript. E-mail to notaxman@dmv.com and say that you want the research summary. Its on the website. If you lose it go to www.people-rights.com and it says what the e-mail is on the website. [desert]Dave, just a program note, therealpublicradio.net is tied in and were streaming so if anybody needs to save money on the telephone for free, therealpublicradio.net and we also have the chat room so if any of Howard and Daves friends want to share information or say hello during the conference call tonight they can go to our chat room and its good to go. And as many people want to join in on the backroom conversation they can do that. So, good to go and good to be with you guys, tonight. [Neil] Lets not forget, folks, a few dollars to desert owl and to Gemini would help these people out immensely for the research and all the work they provide for us. [desert]Thank you for the heads up. [Howard] I never even think to bring that up. God bless you.

[Neil] Well, I do, Howard, because I know you and Dave DiReamer and desert owl and a load of other people do a lot of the research. You guys do so much and people at times just take it for granted and I just I could do more to help out too. So what you could do to help people is to get me or Howard invited as a guest to be interviewed on these talk shows and also you can have a seminar there in your town for the local people, your relatives or co-workers, or acquaintances, neighbors. We have an all day long presentation that summarizes all of the research thats been gathered and collated since we started in 1972 so thats 38 years of research thats [desert]And, Howard, you were saying you wanted to do an interview on a particular topic. Im good to go whenever you are. [Howard] Yeah, I got to get myself back on my feet and feeling better.

[desert]Ok, just let me know and we can pick the night thats the best for youok? [Howard] I dont even remember what it was we were going to talk aboutits something you brought up.

[desert]No, its something you wanted to talk about, about money or something like that, wasnt it? [Howard] It was something you brought up and it led into something else and I said, yeah, we can do that; we can get together andprogram on your program on it. . . . {00:33:39.810} [Howard] Anyway, Harold, I want to get up with you anyway. I got your number. Ill be calling you as soon as I get time to digest this motion you sent me. I want to go over some of the parts of it and talk about whether or not you want to allow the persons name and their personal information to go out with this. [Harold] Actually that should be redacted.

[Howard] Yeah. Either that or maybe what we can do is re-type it and make a fill-inthe-blanks to go out with this type thing for people. [Harold] [Howard] Well, actually, I have it in Word so there wont be a problem with that. Ok.

[Harold] And that was a rush job, too, the actual motion itself because if you look at the motion and then look at the reply you can see I spent more time with the reply. Thats where I slammed at is the reply. [00:48:23.005] [Jim] Howard, Ronald MacDonald was saying something that was quite interesting. They were fighting a tax case out in California. Apparently, Lockyear was going after some guy out there for failing to pay taxes or something like that so Ronald MacDonald did some research and he found out that those laws they were trying to use were all copyrighted and apparently you can copyright laws in the commercial jurisdiction. The real laws that apply to the people you cannot copyright. And he also found that the presentment they sent to him was basically a bill of exchange. So I guess they sent that all back to Lockyears office and Lockyear withdrew the case and that was the end of the case. I thought that was kind of interesting. [Howard] wife Yeah. As a matter of fact thanks to Dave DeReamer and his wonderful

[caller] Would you translate what you just said about they sent it back to somebodysLockyears [Jim] Lockyear was the prosecuting attorneythat is correct. The attorney general is actually what he was. Later I think he ran for office out there.

[Howard] [Jim]

Did he sent it back with a neutral response letter, you said? No.

[Howard] No. He sent back all the information that they had compiled about why this copyrighted law was not government law. [Jim] Commercial law.

[Howard] Its private law and it doesnt apply to the people. It applies to the private corporations such as the IRS and the Federal Reserve and the United States government, theyre private corporations. And this is what well get into in a minute and then, Dave, I want you to tell them then that you will send this out to them but hopefully youll send it out by e-mail, not by [Dave] Its a thirty-six page transcript of the actual conversation of the interview that was given with Ronald MacDonald and anybody that wants it can just send an e-mail to notaxman@dmv.com and tell me that you want the transcript of the Ronald MacDonald interview and they can read for themselves what he said. [Howard] Ok, Im glad you clarified that because you cut in and starting talking about it when I said something about the three cases that you and your wife found this week that will show the reason why this is quite true and I hope you have them available to send out to people, too, on e-mail because his fax is horrible to read. [Dave] cases Well, if you give out the cite of the cases people can go an look up the

[Howard] Yeah, they could. Well, Im going to give that out, tonight. But this is three cases that Dave and his wonderful little wife who spent hours helping us research found and this really clarifies what Ive been telling you for years that the governments laws apply to the government and they dont apply to people including income tax. It only applies to government-granted privileges which are excises. The Constitution only gave Congress the authority to lay taxes on imposts, duties and excises, not on private people and not through any perversion of law. [caller] Howard, how then do they assimilate or make presumption and the connection that we are part of that private corporation or United States. How do we get out of them making that assumption or deny or revoke it? [Howard] I presume youre part of my mafia organization and I presume that youre the one who stole the money that was due into the organization so I presume I can send my hit man to get rid of you. That answer your question? [caller] Yes

[Howard] near us? [caller]

Youre around, arent you? Youre here, arent you? Youre somewhere Yes.

[Howard] Well, then I can presume these things. And they are nothing but an evil dirty mafia organization. [caller] I dont think I rate them that high or that low.

[Howard] An evil dirty mafia organization, theyre not a good mafia. But they do things in that same manner. They just presume and they send their hit men out to clean out your bank account or to put you in jail or if things are bad enough and they dont like you enough theyve been known to kill people. [Jim] [Howard] [caller] They ordered a lot of shotguns, I understand. Um huh. Well, some nice ones, too, and thats just the agents.

[Jim] Howard, Ronald MacDonald was also saying that he dug something else up that was quite interesting. He claims that you can join somebody elses case if you have some sort of a right that you could losein other words, the other guys fight involves a right and [Howard] Its called an amicurious brief. That means a friend of the court and whatevers going on in this case will also adversely affect me unless it is understood how it adversely affects not only the defendant in this case or the plaintiff in this case but also affects me so I can do this amicurious brief. [Dave] He calls it common cause.

[Howard] As a friend of the court I can show the court that there is more details and more involvement in this than whats been shown in the other case and its done all the time. [Jim] using this. Now, he was saying he thought the patriots could help each other out by

[caller] Well, they could ifIll tell you what. If I had a case I dont want any help from the patriot community. Then again, I dont want any help from a lawyer either. Like I told the court one time, I said, judge I dont want a lawyer. Im perfectly capable of screwing something up all by myself. I dont need somebody else to do it for me like a lawyer. And I definitely dont need a patriot foolishness. Theres an awful lot of hogwash

to be polite as I can about it, information out here from the patriot community. Now, theres some good stuff but theres an awful lot of hogwash. And a lot of times somebody will find something thats good and then they put their spin on it and it becomes hogwash. Actually, I bet if we look at the law and study what this Ronald MacDonald thing is all about... You just made a comment, Jim, that they decided that it was a bill of exchange. Ill guarantee you it wasnt. If you look closely at the law it was not a bill of exchangeit was an assignment of a debt and thats all tax bills, traffic tickets, and demands for payment because you didnt paint the rain gutter on time when you were told to and all these other government documents that are sent to you claiming that you owe money. They are nothing more than an assignment of their debt to you to pay their debts for them. Its an assignment, its not a bill of exchange. A bill of exchange is based on a contract and the value of that contract. And that contract has to be given over to the other for them to collect at the end of the contract in order for it to be a bill of exchange. Thats what it means by exchangethe bill gets exchanged to them from the beginning. Building contractors do this all the time. They call it construction loans. They assign the contract over to the bank. Thats the collateral to secure the loan just like when you make a mortgage the house is used to secure the loan. If they made legitimate loans these securities would be legitimate. Theyre not legitimate, theyre just assignments, today, because all youre doing is giving away your propertytheyre tricking you into giving it away. [caller] [Howard] going. Howard, isnt that basically under the bankruptcy that they created? Well, its just one of the scams theyre running to keep their bankruptcy

[caller] Howard, once when I paid the bill at the traffic court on the receipt the clerk wrote assignment because thats what it was for. [Howard] Yep. Every once in a while we pick these little things up where they do these things and realize what theyre actually doing but unless we see it happen it alludes us because the way they put this law together, the way theyve scattered pieces out through their legislation its very hard to put the whole picture together. Thats why its taken me thirty years of researching their laws to tie down as much as Ive tied down and shown you people because it wasnt easy to find. But any law that is copyrighted is private law. The Constitution is not copyrighted the code books are not copyrighted. They cant copyright the code book. [Henry] The Bill of Rights.

[Howard] Well, the Bill of Rights is part of the Constitutions and theyre not copyrighted. But very little of the rest of the stuff, like the agency rules and regulations, thats all copyrighted because thats private law related to the agency. And, as a matter of fact, theyll even take some of the law that is actually for the agency and copyright that too even though it came out of the Code. And textbooks that are written for students to study the law and how it works so the lawyer or law professor that wrote them can copyright them because its his workits a work of art. Its his art but it is a work of art and he can

copyright that. But you cant copyright the real laws. Thats why the United States Code is broken down into two sections. And I forget what they call it. Theres a list in the front of the codebook that lists the different codes that are public law and real law and then theres a list that isnt public law. Thats all private law for these different agencies and its all internal within government. It only applies to government. These lawyers teach these little morons like IRS agents and police officers and people like that to come out here on the street and apply that law to you and make money off of you and what theyre doing is assigning their debts to you to pay their debts for them through the misrepresentation of these laws applying to you and your property. The real purpose behind this government is absolutely fabulous. The way it was set up this would have been a utopia if it werent for the corruption that has taken place from within and that has been there from the very beginning. Some of the laws that were passed in 1791 corrupted the intent of the Constitution. Some of them went along with it and from there on it got divided into those two sections, real public law that was actual law and private law that isnt actual law but it only applies privately to a certain organization or a certain agency. I want to go over these three cases. They really establish exactly what Ive been telling you and the three cases are a chain through history of this country from back in 1894, the oldest case, up throughwell, one of them is dated 1949 and the other one doesnt have a date but its in the reporter books even more recently than the 1949 one by the number of the book and it shows the history from way back in 1894 of what the courts have ruled and right on up into more modern case law that is still respected. Some of that old stuff, they try to say, well, thats too old, we dont use that anymore. But anything from 1938 in the Erie Railroad decision on is supposed to be what theyre applying and they try to ignore the old law. Well, this series of these cases shows you that the new law and the new decisions are identical to the old decisions and the court stated the same identical things and theyve always held this. And heres what they held: The oldest case is Caha v. US 150 US Reports, pg. 211, 1894 case and in that case the court said, US regulations apply only within US territories and the District of Columbia. The laws of Congress in respect to those matters outside of constitutionally delegated powers do not extend into the territorial limits of the states but have force only in the District of Columbia and other places that are within the exclusive jurisdiction of the national government meaning the territories, Puerto Rico, Guam and the Virgin Islands. Their laws do not extend to the states. That includes the income tax laws. The income tax laws are internal to government. They can extend to you privatelyweve over this beforeif you ask the government for a privilege such as being a corporate officer of a corporation or having a license to do something that government licenses and has the authority under the Constitution to license. Things like being a drug pusher called a doctor or being an alcohol dealer or manufacturer called a bar business or being a gun dealer. They claim they have the right because these are dangerous substances. Guns harm people when theyre misused. Drugs harm people when theyre used and alcohol when its misused harms people so they claim they have the right to regulate that. If you ask for a license to be involved in one of those things or to be involved in gambling gambling is another thing that they consider to be harmful and they license itthen you put yourself in a position no matter where youre located in the world of having asked for a privilege from government and they can tax that privilege. Other than that it does not extend to the rest of the people who didnt ask for a privilege other than the privilege of

working for governmentthats always a privilege. That was the first case. The second case by dates is 1949. Thats Foley Brothers v. Filardo and thats at 336 US Rpts, page 281. That case said, somewhat more briefly, US regulations only apply within the US territories and the District of Columbia. It is well established principal of law that all federal regulations apply only within the territorial jurisdictions of the United States unless a contrary intent appears. Well, the contrary intent that would appear would go back to what they said in the Caha Case about outside of constitutionally delegated powers. If theyre regulating something like the banks, no matter where the bank is, the banks are agencies of the United States government. They have the power to coin money and regulate the value thereunder under the Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 5. That clause gives them the authority to make laws that apply to these banks no matter where the banks are located. It applies to the bank and the bank only and not to you. But then again, I know theres a lot of people that want to deal with the banks that think they have to deal with the banks for some stupid reason but the fact is, you and I should not be dealing with the banks. They are government. If you dont want to deal with government dont deal with their banks. The third case doesnt have a date on it but its a newer Reporter Book. Its a more recent case than 1949, probably sometime in the 1950s because the number is right close. The case is US v. Spelar . The cite on it is 338 US Rpts, pg. 217 and specifically at page 222 the statement was made. And the statement says, US regulations apply only within the US territories and the District of Columbia and they said the same thing three times in a row in all cases, didnt they? And then they went on to say, there is a canon of legislative construction which teaches Congress a contrary intent appears within the legislation. It is meant to apply only within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States. US laws and regulations and rules and such only apply in D.C., Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands and only to the government organizations that exist within those territories. [Dave] And those two capital letter fictitious zones and

[Howard] See, thats fraud. That is perverting the constitutional intent of the law. Thats how theyve tricked the people by getting you to use their money and getting you to use their postal addresses and getting you to cooperate with filling out a 1040 form and filling out a W4 form when you go to work and all these other shenanigans that does not apply to the people. Now, if youre going to argue these kinds of situations that that address does not apply to you as Dave did say so adeptly a little while ago that you dont live in NY or he doesnt live in DE because theyre federal territories connected to the banking system. Theyre districts of the Federal Reserve Bank. Thats not you, thats not your address, thats their address. But those laws, rules and regulations that try to apply that only apply to the territories and the functions of the government in the District of Columbia and not to you out here. Dave was absolutely right, on point, with that address thing, that DE, that that does not apply to you. They try to apply it. They get away with it because education made us stupid. How many times have you heard me say that? That was the purpose of education to keep us stupid so we wouldnt understand these things. I dont recall in school any of these kinds of cases ever being taught. They never told us anything in school about how the law applied only to government and not to the people. So they kept us stupid by not teaching us what they should have taught usright? And I guarantee you that this is done on purpose so they could take unfair advantage of the ignorant population

and they kept us ignorant through education and they definitely take unfair advantage of us. If youre going to argue something like this Ronald MacDonald article is about youve got to understand those kinds of cases that their laws are copyrighted as private law for their organization and it only applies to them in their organization. It does not apply to me privately in my private capacity. It applies to them privately in their private organization capacity. Am I being clear with this? Is it helping to make it easier for you to digest what Ive been talking about in the past because Ive explained this same thing before, time and time again? [caller] [Howard] [caller] Give that court case again. Which court case, there were three of them? Well, give me the first one; I just got on here.

[Howard] The first one was Caha v. US 152 US Rpts 211 [1894]. And the second case was Foley Brothers v. Filardo. Thats 336 US 281 [1949]. And then the last one was US v. Spelar 338 US 217, 222. When you see it written like that the second page number is identifying the page in the case that that particular statement is made on. And all three of the these cases start out saying the same thing, US regulations only apply within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States and the District of Columbia. Territorial jurisdiction of the United States is Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands and in years gone by Alaska and Hawaii but in the 1960s Alaska and Hawaii became participating states with the fifty states of the Union and gave up their position as territories so it doesnt apply there anymore. [caller] [Howard] Ok, thank you. Um huh.

[Jim] Oh, Im sorry, this is Jim from Michiganlong time no hearbeen very busy. Its kind of sad when youre the one thats concerned about this government and what theyre doing and everybody doesnt want you to disturb their comfort zone. [Howard] Yeah, there are people in your neighborhood no matter where you are in the country that are also involved in this but its might hard to locate those people. Most of the ones in your neighborhood dont want to get involved. [Jim] Right, Im all alone. Even my family dont want toso Im all by myself so Itill I find somebody who understands where Im coming from. [Howard] [Jim] [Howard] Well, theyll wake up someday. They will. Some of them will wake up too late. Yeah, a very rude awakening when they do awake.

[Jim]

Yeah, youre right. Its going to be very rudeyeah.

[Howard] Its going to be an awakening like an incident that happened here in Salisbury, Maryland last weekend. Thats right south of me about fifteen miles. This was an act of absolute desperation. Theres a little article in Sundays newspaper about it. This fellow probably never stole anything in his life because he was a total incompetent thief. Anybody that steals learns how to do itgets better and better as they do it later in life. This guy evidently never had stolen anything in his life but apparently he was broke, he was hungry, he didnt have any money, he didnt have a job, hed been looking for a job probably but he hadnt been able to find one so he got a hold of a gun and he walked into some kind of a store in Salisbury and held the clerk at gunpoint and demanded the money. Well, the clerk must have talked to him because the article didnt go into the explanation but the clerk held him up by talking to him about it, must have convinced him not to do it and in the meanwhile the owner of the business was in the back and he heard this going on so he snuck out the back and probably had a cell phone so he called the police. The police came storming in with their sirens. The guy knew he was going to be caught so he shot and killed himself. Id say that that is total desperation. He couldnt steal enough or something to get by with then he knew he was going to die of starvation so he might as well kill himself. Thats complete and total desperation. People are getting to that point in this country. [Jim] Really sad.

[Howard] Yes it is, its very sad, whats going on but like I said, its going to be a rude awakening and probably at different times. Everybodys not going to wake up at once until it comes to a total crash and theres no food at the grocery store to be bought. Theres no electric in the wires anymore. The television doesnt work. The refrigerator isnt keeping the beer cold. Man, Im telling you no money for gasoline and no gasoline available to put in your car and the tempers will flair. [Jim] [Howard] desolate. [Jim] Dont be caught in the cities. Thats why the Bible says, get out of the cities because they will be laid Its going to be chaos, anarchy.

[Howard] Well, anarchy is what we have now. Anarchy is not the way lawyers define it. If you go look in a law dictionary it means confusion in law. It doesnt mean absence of law, it means confusion in law. Were living in anarchy because the law is all confused. I just showed you how its confused. They apply it in places where its not supposed to be applied, where they dont have authority to apply it, thats confusion in law. Were living in anarchy orchestrated and run by the lawyers yet. [Jim] No, attorneys, twisters of words.

[Howard] [Jim] [Howard]

Um huh. And, boy, do they know how to twist them in court. Boy, do they.

[Jim] But dont you do it. Theyll tell you youre playing word games. Oh, its ok for you because you have a license and I dontok. [Howard] Well, one of their favorite sayings is that what youre doing is self-serving and what I do, right away, is I throw all of this stuff that theyre using back on them as being self-serving. Its self-serving for them to take unfair advantage of me and I point that out right away. Then I back it upand weve had other pieces of court cases and pieces of law that weve applied in the past to show some of the points that I pointed out here that the law doesnt apply to private people, for instance, the 5th Amendment to the US Constitution which the last sentence of it says that government cannot take private property for public use without just compensation. Well, trying to impose a tax or a fine upon my private labor or my private land or my private automobile or anything like that is a taking of private property for their public use and benefit without giving me just compensation. Weve used that as an approach in an argument but these three cases back that argument up even better, dont they? [Jim] Yeah.

[caller] How do you do that in court? I mean, they take your automobile because the plates expired and they confiscate it, they impound it and the auction it off and its gone before you can even get there in time enough to pay the bail to get it out. What do you do file charges against them? [Howard] There are two really big rackets being run in this country by government. One of them is automobile registration and control and the other one is labor registration and control. [Jim] Laborsocial security numberyeah.

[Howard] Labor registration is through the social security number and auto registration, of course, is through the automobile registration and the drivers license and theyre the two biggest rackets that theyre running because although every bit of that law has constitutional authority it only that authority for things within government, not private peoples private automobiles or private peoples private labor. It cannot extend to that and these cases sort of spell that out that US regulations apply only within US territories and the District of Columbia and, of course, anything expanding from the District of Columbia as I explained earlier. They have a constitutional authority to control and regulate money and banking so if they make laws, even if the bank is located in your neighborhood, wherever you live, those laws apply to that bank because it is an instrumentality of

government but it doesnt apply to you through that bank and cant apply to you through that bank. Theyre misapplying it. [caller] Howard, how would you go about putting a case together to go into court I mean youre not really suing anybody, but if you went to court to tell the judge that you wanted a paper on him saying that you have the right to drive public highways with private propertythat way if the police pulls you over you just tell him the court mandate or order from the judge that you are private? [Howard] It would be quite an undertaking to put together enough case law and carry this all the way through to one of the higher courts to get that kind of a decision in the court but there is a way to go about doing that. The form of law thats used to get into something like that is called equity. You would be asking for an equitable decision in a court of equity this would not be a regular law case. It would be equity and its done in the form of a declaratory judgment and injunctive relief. The injunctive relief is an order ordering them to do something that theyre supposed to do or to cease and desist from doing something that theyre not supposed to do and its not a case for money. It has nothing to do with money and suing for damages or anything like thatits just to get this decision in the form of an order declaring that something cannot be done the way that theyre doing it and ordering them to cease and desist from continuing to do it. Thats declaratory and injunctive relief but because this is such a racket that has been going on for such a long time theyre not going to give this racket up easy. [Jim] Theres a lot of money involved.

[Howard] The courts are making money off of this. The courts are part of the problem. Theyre allowing this to be done. [Jim] Michigan is $94 million a year in traffic court, confiscation of vehicles and stuff, registrations. [Howard] In the early 1980s I sat in a courtroom, one day, in a traffic court in Maryland and I added up the fines that were being imposed on all these people that were coming before the traffic court and they had taken in over $6000 in the morning court alone, in one morning. There were three different traffic courts in this particular courthouse so that was three times $6000 that they were taking in, in the morning and then they had afternoon court and they took in probably another $6000 but I didnt sit through that one and add up the fines. But thats, what, $36,000 a day in one courthouse in one jurisdiction here in this country? [caller] Well, Howard, if I pay $30,000 for an automobile and youre told the depreciation is down to $400, thats all they can give me, isnt there a law case somewhere that they got to pay me for thethat I paid forI mean, the automobile. [Howard] Well, it depends upon how old it is and what the condition of it is but, yeah, actually, the way Ive put this together Ive let the Department of Motor Vehicles know

that Ill be glad to register the car with them if theyll just pay me the original price of the carthats my just compensation. Now, according to an old case back in the 1880s and Im sure we can find newer ones if we searched for it but back in the 1880s was a case called Monongahela Navigation Company v. United States. The navigation company had built a dam along the Monongahela in Pennsylvania and then they built a lock along side the dam. A lock is a waterway for boats to get through so that they can go past the dam. And they open the gates and let water in there, the boat goes on through. They charged the boat a fee to do this. {Interestingthey put an obstruction in the river impeding free passage and then they charge money to go past their obstructionnice racket} They make money off of it because they put a lot of money out to build this thing. Well, the United States government saw moneywow, we like that. So they tried to take this lock and dam away from the company by eminent domain. Now eminent domain is an absolute right of government if they have a good purpose for doing it like for the good of all, building a roadway and taking your house and your land to put the roadway through so that all will have the benefit of the road. They have a right to do something like that but when they do it they have to pay just compensation. Well, in this case the lawyer that handled it was smart enough to argue the just compensation, not to argue like they did in the Kelo case recently up in Connecticut about whether the government had a right to do it through eminent domain but to argue the just compensation. And that court ruledand that was the US Supreme Court that ruled on that casethats how far up the case wentand they ruled that the owner of the property was the only one that had a right to set a price on what it was worth, not the government. So, getting back to your car, if you paid $36,000 for the nice car they should pay you $36,000 for the carI dont care if its ten years old. As a matter of fact, my Lincoln Town Car was $33,000 in 1989. Its going to be twenty-one years old soon. [caller] Call it a classic and double the price.

[Howard] Yeah. But I still want the $33,000 if they want it to be registered with them for their benefit if I want to sit and argue this case. I dont have time. Theres too many people out here like all of you that are listening tonight that need the research help and the assistance in these cases and you have no idea how many cases Im working on and how many things Im doing for how many different people. Im busy, I dont have time to do your whole case for you. Thats why I make people do part of it themselves. For one thing they learn better by doing it themselves and the other thing is I dont have time to do it all and I dont have a staff and I dont have enough money to pay a staff. You do learn a lot more by me forcing you to do it yourself. Now, I keep telling people, if you dont have the initiative to study dont even get involved in the first place. Dont even start because youre the one thats got to understand it. Youre the one thats got to explain it. Youre the one thats got to be able to show the court something like the Monongahela Navigation Company case and show them, look I have the right to set this price, the Supreme Court said so. [caller] Howard, you made a comment the other day that when you send in a security agreement you dont send it with a personal check?

[Howard] [caller]

Yeah, I sure did. It would be a money order thenright?

[Howard] And actually, you should do everything in life with money orders. You shouldnt have personal checks unless, of course, youre a business. Now, if youre a business with a privilege from government go ahead and use the checks. You put yourself in their position but if youre just a private little person you shouldnt even have a checking account. [caller] And that would be because theyre saying that youre using a privilege

[Howard] Thats right, youre accepting one of their privileges so thats how they tie Now, thats fictitious. That is not really what it meant for them to create excises, not fictitious little excises like that that extend beyond the actual excise or privilege for a bank to exist. Theyre not supposed to be doing that. Thats part of this lawyer perversion of the laws but they do it and theyre getting away with it and youre probably not going to stop them because just like the traffic ticket and the income taxes on private labor theyve been getting away with this for so many years and stealing so much money through it, youre not going to get them to change that very easily so I wouldnt even waste my time arguing over the bank account thingjust dont have a bank account. If you get a paycheck there are check cashing places thatll cash it. Somebody told me that one of the cheapest places is Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart has a check cashing setup. Theyll cash any kind of check, any size check. [caller] number. Yes, Howard, only one thing I believe they want your social security

[Howard] Ok if you got your social security number covered on a secured interest you got the priority interest in that social security number and the use of it so let them use it for cashing the check. They dont use it through the bank. They just use it to protect themselves. [caller] Ok, then I wouldnt use the 999 theory.

[Howard] Well, you could. I would. Ten years ago when I had that series of bad heart attacks I did something I swore Id never do. I went and got one of these useless piece of junk cell phones and in order to sign up for it they wanted the social security number so I gave them 999999999. They wrote it down and issued a cell phone to me. I didnt have any trouble getting it [caller] Howard, when I send in the first copy, not the amended copy but my first copy I believe I paid for it with a personal check could that actually come back on me? [Howard] Well, probably not but if it ever did youd have a devil of a time showing that you were private and that you had an interest in something like that when you were

using their benefits. For most people it probably wouldnt come back but if you were arguing income tax and trying to say that your income was from private sources they would try to show in the court that you used a checking account and that that made it not private sources, that made it privileged. So there are ways that it could come back on you someday. [caller] How about debt relief, it come back on that one, too?

[Howard] Debt relief, the best thing you can do with debts is learn how to go to court and fight them and eliminate the debts. Dont go to these debt relief places thatll set you up with a payment plan. [caller] Im sorry I guess I misspoke that but using the security agreement to eliminate like a credit card or something thats what I was wondering because I have a feeling that thats the way Im going to end up using my security agreement. [Howard] We have used the security agreement in the past to eliminate credit cards. Some individuals were very successful. Weve even had some people eliminate mortgages using the security agreement. The few that have done that successfully are very few. Its too damned complicated but what Mickey Paoletta has put together to argue these debts has been working like a champ and all hes done is researched into their laws just like we do and he went deeper into the debt laws and he found a bunch of stuff that prevents them from getting away with the debt collections that theyre doing. Hes teaching people how to do it and its working quicker and easier because its simpler than the security agreement. Now, that doesnt mean the securitys not still a good thing to have because if they got an old judgment on you and they try to collect it the security agreement will prevent the collection. [caller] Mickeys eliminating mortgage debts?

[Howard] Well, Mickey just had one of his people up in Maine win a mortgage foreclosure casegot a default judgment against the bank for not answering the case because the case is not answerable. [caller] [Howard] [Dave] Colorado too, one in Colorado also. Got another one in Colorado? Good. And we discharged all those hospital bills.

[Howard] Well, thats another thing, weve used the security agreement to get rid of things like hospital bills because the hospital system is part of government. Now, thats unconstitutional but they do it. Now, these three cases that I just talked about tonight, theyre very closely related to what I talked about a week or two ago about the Tenth Amendment and the fact that the legislature of the states has the right to reject any United States laws that are not within the constitutional confines of the governments authority and

if the state legislature doesnt take action and do it the people have the last word and these cases back up what youre doing. Just reject their law and tell them youre not going to let it apply to you because it doesnt apply to you and you reject it, you nullify it. Thats the right of nullificationyou can nullify their laws. If they pass this health care plan or this cap and trade foolishness about carbon imprints and global warming and all that foolishness I dont know, I think Mother Nature just got in their way this year. Washington, D.C. has already exceeded their record yearly snowfalls and were only in the middle of the winter. [Dave] Tell them the story about George over in Connecticut and his intent. He never intended and that it was a mistake and the judge had totime served and that was the end of it. [Howard] See, these cases back up what George did. We didnt have these back then. All this research just takes time and the realization of what were looking for takes time to come to our thick little heads. But, finally, it comes to my thick head and I get somebody else like Daves wife or my wife or one of the other girls that works with us when I got money to pay them to get on the computer and do some research and find these kinds of cases to back these things up. But George beat his case on income tax. It was a willful failure to file and defrauding the United States government. Willful failure to file at that time carried a one-year jail sentence and defrauding the United States government carried and I think it was up to four years in jail and they charged him twice for two years. They charged him of willful failing to file and defrauding the United States. And he could have gone to jail for ten years and he didnt have a whole lot of extra money so he just told them to give him a lawyer. So they gave him a lawyer. This little twerp refused to use anything that we showed him. As the trial proceeded and they got to the part where the defense is supposed to get up and present their arguments this little twerp stood up in front of the court and said, the defense rests. He didnt even put on a defense for George. We had prepared a motion in the middle of the trial and I dont remember the name of it now but its a motion for a final judgment, right now, at the end of the plaintiffs presentment of their arguments and their evidencemotion for acquittal, thats what its called. These names slip my mind. And, of course, we showed it to the lawyer. He wouldnt put it in so we put it in and the judge said, well, you cant do that. You got to through your lawyer when you have a lawyer so I cant pay attention to this but I see what youre saying. I said, George, were on the right track. We can beat both of these lawyers, the one they gave you and the one thats prosecuting you. We just got to stick to this point. Well, naturally, it came time for the summary and the US attorney got up there and told the jury how everybodys got to pay their fair shareIm sure youve all heard that beforeand George didnt pay his fair share and hes guilty of willful failure to file and defrauding the United States and, of course, the jury came back with a guilty verdict. I think it might have been because of the motion for acquittal that we put in, the judge decided to give him a little extra courtesy. Now, theyll do this for lawyers, theyll do this for doctors, professional courtesy. Theyll give them a little extra time before they sentence them. George wasnt a lawyer or a doctorno reason for them to give him any professional courtesy but they did. They gave him sixty days to go home and prepare himself for sentencing. Well, in that sixty days we made up a 1040NR, thats a non-resident alien form. And we showed that his

income was not from residency from within the United States but the income was from sources without the United States and then we attached a copy of Title 26 of the United States Code, Section 864(c)(1) & (2). (C1) says income from sources within the United States are taxable and income from sources from without the United States are not taxable. Well, by golly, doesnt that fit right under what I told you about these three cases? The laws only apply within the United States and its territorial jurisdiction. They dont apply to private people. Well, when it came time for sentencing George wrote up a little explanation of this and he got up in front of the judge and he started to read the explanation and after he got a little bit far into it, not quite all the way through, but kind of far into it and recited what 861 of the IRS Code said. The judge said, I see what youre doing. Sit down, George, Ill take care of this. And George said, I want to get this on the record for appeal. He said, sit down, I told you Ill take care of this. George sat down so the judge proceeded to explain this on the record so that he covered himself. And what he explained was that youve been charged with and found guilty in front of a jury of willful failure to file income tax on two counts and defrauding the United States government on two counts which allows me to sentence you for up to ten years. Well, about then George popped back up and he says, thats why I want to read the rest of this and get it on the record. And the judge said, George, I told you Ill take care of this, now sit down. So finally George sat down and the judge said, Im going to sentence you to the whole ten years and strike ityou may go home. This was in 1987. You know how many tax cases there have been since then and how much Ive talked about this around the country in seminars, private calls with people and such, and nobodys been able to use this effectively yet except George. Maybe some of you will understand this well enough when you apply it to those three cases that the territorial jurisdiction of the United States is the only place that their laws apply. Title 26 does not apply anyplace else except within the United States. We do not live in the United States. This is America. The United States is a corporation located in Washington, D.C. You dont live there unless you work for the United States government or one of its political subdivisions called the state of or the county of or the city of or the town of. Then youre in the government. [caller] [Howard] [caller] Title 26, Section 864(c)(1) & (2). Right. And the thing was a 1040NR?

[Howard] Right. Now, see, by doing that he filed the form so he couldnt be guilty of willful failure to file because he filed but in filing he showed that his income was from sources outside the United States. Well, thats what the Section 862 or 860 it starts at is the source of income. That whole little group there in the 800s is source of income, thats the title of that portion of the Code and under the source of income at 864(c)(1) & (2) it explains very clearly that if the source is not within the United States which means the government and its privileges that it gives out then its not taxable and George walked away a free man. But he wasnt too free. This little twerp lawyer met him out in the hallway, went running up to him jumped up in his face, wrapped his legs around George George is a big man, hes about six foot fivethis guy was a little terpand he wrapped

his legs around George, put his arm around Georges neck and began to pound on Georges face with his other hand. Luckily, one of the US marshals there at the court saw this happening, came up and pulled the little twerp off of George and asked George if he wanted to prosecute him for assault. George said, no, hes a idiot. George was too nice, he let him go, he should have prosecuted him. The little twerp was upset because he didnt help them to win the case and get paid and thats where we found out that these lawyers all get paid for winning these kinds of cases. They get little bonuses. He wanted his bonus money and he didnt get it because George pulled the case out from under him. [caller] Howard, we hear a lot about Mickeys work and all this. Is he going to have another seminar or does he actually help people for a donation or how? [Howard] with him. He actually helps people. Get in touch with me and Ill put you in touch

[caller] Well, that sure was a lot of information but it just seemed like it was untouchable. [Howard] Well, for a donation he has all kinds of information available that hell send to you for the donation. Any of us that are doing this need a little bit of donation to cover our costs because printing costs and mailing costs and replacing the damned printers and computers and stuff like that is expensive. We need a little bit of donation to help support what we do. Mickey doesnt ask for money like lawyers charge. I dont ask for money like lawyers charge I probably wouldnt have near as many cases. If George could have paid a lawyer but would have paid me instead Id have been set for life off of winning his case for him. [caller] Thats what these crooks do. They pay these lawyers thousands of dollars so they can get of jail. [Howard] Old expression in this country: Money talks and bull shit walks. If you got enough money to buy the talker that can bull shit good enough youll walk. [Henry] Give the lawyer enough money and then hell pay the judge off.

[Howard] An old friend of mine had a bar up in Baltimore and he was very active in political circles and stuff and he had a big sign hanging on the wall in his bar that said, Maryland has the best judges that money can buy. [caller] Well, one of the owners of the Federal Reserve, the Rothschilds, the main one, said allow me to print the money of a country and I care not who makes his laws. [Henry] The Rockefellers are the ones that started the Federal Reserve.

[Howard] Well, you know what, nobody really cares who started the Federal Reserve, its not even important. But theres a whole lot of hullabaloo and people have to talk about

this and blame somebody else. This is the Babbit case, God made her do it. Always blame somebody else. Never accept the blame yourself. The Federal Reserve put all this stuff out in front of us and we accepted it. Whos really responsible for this being wrong. [caller] We consented to it.

[Howard] You consented to it. Youre responsible for it. Dont worry about who did it, its not important. [Henry] It was our forefathers in 1913 that accepted it and got us into it.

[Howard] No, it wasnt either. It was the politicians in 1913 that put it all together and offered it to you or your father or your grandfather. [Henry] I wasnt around then. I said, our forefathers.

[Howard] But when they accepted it and then the next generation accepted and the next generation accepted it, it became law. And when everybody accepts something and it becomes the norm then it becomes law. Now, it might be bad law. It might be phony law but it becomes the law until somethings done about and the history of the world shows that this has happened several times before and the only thing that resolved it, it turned out to be, was violence. I would like this time to resolve it without violence. I dont think thats possible but I would like that. [Henry] It would be nice but its not going to happen.

[Howard] Im like Roy Rogers, Im a peace-loving man. Ill beat the living hell out of you just so youll be peaceful. Any of you that are old enough to remember the Roy Rogers shows [Henry] I watch them every day.

[Howard] He was a peace-loving manremember? And he beat the living hell of you until you became peaceful. [Henry] Well, the problem with that is that they know we want to be peaceful about it so they go and they go and they pick you off. Theyre not going to be peaceful about it. Theyre going to be very quiet about it but theyre going to pick off the people that starting moving the movement and they do it with force and putting an end to their life so theyre not thinking about peace at all. [Howard] No, but Ill tell you what, theyre beginning to lose in the courts and the reason theyre beginning to lose is because of the concentrated efforts like Mickey has put out and like Ive put out and other people that have helped both Mickey and I to do some of the research and what weve found and how weve learned to use it in their courts and it is starting to work finally. It did work back in 1987. You just couldnt get some of this stuff

through some of these thick-headed people. Most of the people that live in this country actually think they live in the United States because news media tells you that. Church preachers tell you that. School teachers tell you that. You got it in your head that we live in the United States. You dont understand that the United States is a corporation located in Washington, D.C. [caller] They even tell you were a democracy and were not, were a republic.

[Howard] Well, no we arent. We have a republic and its a democracy that runs the republic. Both of them were set upit was a dual system of government. The private sector was the republic and it had no authority whatsoever to tell government what to do. So, why in the hell did you register to vote. [Henry] Roosevelt under his New Deal destroyed the republic. Thats when the new government was formed called the democracy. [Howard] Nopewrong.

[caller] I think, Benjamin Franklyn when they came out, they asked him what kind of government that they have. He said, we have a republic. [Howard] For as long as you can keep it. And then, George Washington said education will be the ruination of this nation. Boy, was he an intelligent man. He knew that they would educate the people improperly so that the people didnt know how to maintain the republican form of government. The people have retained the republican form of government because that is the people, the private sector. But the government is a democracy. [caller] I found it to be on my end more of an allegory.

[Howard] Yeah, it sort of is. Presidents have taken over as dictators like the one that Henry just mentioned, Roosevelt. He was a dictator. He dictated that certain things were going to be done and the damned Congress went along with him and agreed to it and made it law. Barack Obama has tried to do a little bit of dictating and theyre not going along with him because what hes dictating isnt what they want so theyve ignored him and forced him to get on the bandwagon and go along with the things that they want. [caller] I look back to 1783 with the Treaty of Peace being, I believe its called the trinity and signed by our representative out of the District of Columbia, not really representing the states so I dont know where it began but I know its a mess. [Howard] Well, Ill tell you where it began. In 1871 in the Statutes of Congress At Large there is legislation passed by the corrupted Congress that we had at that time organizing and establishing a new corporation called the United States to replace the one that was organized by the Constitution in 1789. The original one if you go look at the Constitution, it did establish a corporation because all governments are perfect

corporations. They function as a corporation does. So the Constitution established a corporation called the United States of America. This new legislation in 1871 established a different corporation called the United States. They left off the of America. Later on in 1871 Congress passed another little piece of legislation making all the states agents of the new corporation, The United States. That was where it changed, right there. Now, from there on, the changes have been implemented through the bankruptcy, through the new money system and the Federal Reserve Bank and the perversions of the original Constitution and the residency. The people are considered to be residents because you live here. Were back to what I explained to that man about the Mafia. Because youre near by we can presume that youre the problem that we have and we can presume that we need to prosecute you in some way, either shoot you and get rid of you or put you in jail or bar you from doing business with us or anything we want to do because youre here, youre nearby, so we can control you. Thats a presumption based on this concept of residency. That all came from the 14th Amendment which was passed in 1868. And then this new corporation was established based on that concept from the 14th Amendment in 1871. And then, all these other pieces have taken place over the years. They have perverted the Constitution in one way or another. Go back and look at the original draft of the 14th Amendment. It was called the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and it was presented to President (Andrew) Johnson, the one that followed Abraham Lincoln. Johnson wrote a big, long dissertation vetoing the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and in that long dissertation what he said was that this entire act was unconstitutional because government had no authority to regulate society, to create social programs such as education, such as medicine, medical care. They had no authority to do this. Thats why he vetoed the 1866 Civil Rights Act. Congress then turned that into an amendment to the Constitution which didnt need the presidents signature to be passed it needed the vote of the people. And because of the Civil War and all the turmoil at that time the 14th Amendment looked good so the states accepted itsome of them. But interestingly enough, the states that accepted it were not a sufficient number to meet the legal requirement for an amendment to be accepted at the time within the time limit that all the states were supposed to accept it and states like Maryland, for instance, its on the records in Marylands archives that they accepted the 14th Amendment in 1959. They didnt accept it back in 1868 at the time it wasit was supposed to be done while Congress was still in session in 1868. Thats what the rule of amendments requires. It has to be accepted by all the states legislatures and it has to be accepted in exactly the form that its written in. If you go trace these different states down youll find out a lot of the states changed the language of the 14th amendment and then accepted it. Some of the ones that did accept it and a lot of the states didnt accept itand not enough of them had accepted it to meet the two-thirds majority for it to become actual law. So the 14th Amendment never really came into effect by law but through the perversion of the courts and the lawyers they have implemented it ever since 1868 and then the lawyers that got into Congress that were a bunch of scum bags, they passed this law establishing the new corporation called the United States. And everything, today, is being operated under this new corporation called the United States which is actually a foreign sovereign taking over the original sovereignty of the United States. And if you look into international law this is allowed to happen. A conquering sovereign can take over another nation but according to international law when they do this they do not acquire any rights or powers that didnt exist prior in the original sovereignty that was there. 00:29:08.137