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Olá! Eu sou Susan Sarandon.

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Esse é o primeiro programa

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de cinco outros da série
“Mythos”

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Nos quais
Joseph Campbell explorará

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O reino espiritual
do leste...

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Hinduísmo e Budismo.

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O Eutusiasmo de Joe
por religiões estrageiras

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é bastante óbvio,
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mas ele não é nenhum missionário.

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Ele não tenta te converter.

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Em vez disso, ao nos
expor a maneira

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em que as ideias religiosas
são interpretadas no leste,

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ele espera enriquecer nossas
próprias tradições religiosas.

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As vezes ganhamos uma melhor
percepção ao vermos...

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como os outros nos veem.

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Ao vermos os símbolos religiosos
do Hinduísmo e do Budismo

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pelo olhar de Campbell

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podemos ter vislumbres
de nossas próprias vidas espirituais.

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Não temos
que nos tornar budistas

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para compreendermos o Budismo.

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Só temos que abrir nossos olhos

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para um olhar
diferente do mundo.

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Campbell começa com isso:

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Os temas universais
da condição humana

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que nos une a todos.

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Bem, meu projeto
para esse fim de semana

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é baseado em algumas
ideias simples,

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das quais eu gostaria de apresentar
de início.

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SO AS YOU'LL KNOW
WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO.

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THE FIRST IS THE IDEA THAT
I'VE DISCUSSED HERE MANY TIMES

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OF THE GERMAN ANTHROPOLOGIST
ADOLF BASTIAN, WHO RECOGNIZED

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THAT THROUGHOUT THE MYTHOLOGIES

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AND RELIGIOUS SYSTEMS
OF THE WORLD,
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THE SAME IMAGES, THE SAME THEMES
WERE CONSTANTLY RECURRING,

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APPEARING EVERYWHERE,

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AND HE CALLED THESE
"ELEMENTARY IDEAS."

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ELEMENTARGEDANKEN.

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BUT HE RECOGNIZED ALSO
THAT WHEREVER THEY OCCURRED,

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THEY APPEARED
IN DIFFERENT COSTUMES,

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WITH DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS
AND DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS.

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AND THESE PROVINCIAL DIFFERENCES

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HE CALLED FOLK IDEAS
OR ETHNIC IDEAS.

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VOLKERGEDANKEN.

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NOW, THIS IS A VERY
IMPORTANT DISTINCTION.

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IT DIVIDES OUR WHOLE SUBJECT

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INTO TWO
QUITE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS.

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HISTORIANS AND ETHNOLOGISTS

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ARE INTERESTED
IN THE DIFFERENCES,

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AND ONE CAN STUDY
THE MYTHOLOGIES

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AND PHILOSOPHIES OF THE WORLD

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WITH AN ACCENT
ON THESE DIFFERENCES.

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ON THE OTHER HAND,
THE PROBLEM EMERGES

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OF THE ELEMENTARY IDEAS.

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WHY ARE THEY EVERYWHERE?

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AND THIS IS
A PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM,

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AND IT'S A PROBLEM
THAT SEPARATES US

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IN OUR DISCUSSION
OF COMPARATIVE FORMS

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FROM THE WHOLE RESEARCH
HAVING TO DO WITH DIFFERENCES.

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NOW, WHAT I WANT TO DO TODAY

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IS, IN GIVING THE STORY
OF THE ORIENTAL SYSTEMS,

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TO INSIST ON
THE ELEMENTARY ASPECT.

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THE SECOND IDEA
THAT I HAVE IN MIND...

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IS AS FOLLOWS.

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SOMEWHERE IN THE NINTH
AND EIGHTH CENTURIES B.C...

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A SHIFT OF ACCENT TAKES PLACE,
PARTICULARLY IN THE ORIENT...
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WHERE, INSTEAD OF SIMPLY
PRESENTING THE IMAGES,

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THE IMAGES ARE INTERPRETED.

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THAT'S TO SAY
WE'RE GOING TO TURN

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FROM SIMPLY WHAT MIGHT BE CALLED
VISUAL AND ACTIVE RELATIONSHIP

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TO THE FORMS OF MYTH,
THROUGH THE IMAGERY OF MYTH,

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AND THE RITUALS THROUGH WHICH
THE MYTH IS RENDERED INTO LIFE.

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THERE WAS A TURN
TO THINKING ABOUT THESE THINGS,

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INTERPRETING THEM.

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AND SO THE ORIENTAL PHILOSOPHIES

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ACTUALLY REPRESENT A DISCOURSE

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INTERPRETING
THE ELEMENTARY IDEAS.
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NOW, WHAT HAPPENED IN THE WEST

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FOLLOWING THE PERIOD
OF ARISTOTLE, PARTICULARLY,

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WAS A GRADUAL ATTACK
ON THE MYTHOLOGICAL IDEA

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SO THAT CRITICISM IN THE WEST

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TENDED TO SEPARATE ITSELF
FROM THE ELEMENTARY IDEAS.

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HOWEVER, THERE IS
AN UNDERCURRENT

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THROUGHOUT THE WESTERN
THINKING, ALSO,

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THAT'S ASSOCIATED
WITH GNOSTICISM, ALCHEMY,

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AND MANY OF THE DISCREDITED
MANNERS OF THOUGHT,

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THAT CARRIES ON THIS INTEREST IN

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WHAT MIGHT BE CALLED
A PERENNIAL.

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NOW, I'M THINKING OF
THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY

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AS IT HAS BEEN EXPOUNDED,

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PARTICULARLY BY
ANANDA K. COOMARASWAMY,

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AND PICKED UP, I THINK IT WAS
DURING THE FORTIES,

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BY ALDOUS HUXLEY IN THAT WORK OF
HIS "THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY."

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I'M THINKING OF THIS
AS A TRANSLATION

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INTO VERBAL DISCOURSE
OF THE IMPLICATIONS

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OF THE MYTHIC IMAGES.

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AND THAT'S WHY
THERE CAN BE FOUND,

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IN THE MYSTICAL PHILOSOPHIES
THROUGHOUT THE WORLD,
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THE SAME IDEAS RECURRING.

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THE CONTINUITIES THAT
WE CAN RECOGNIZE IN MYTH

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COME OVER INTO PHILOSOPHY.

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AND THIS IS WHAT IS KNOWN
AS THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY.

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NOW, MYTH COMES FROM
THE SAME ZONE AS DREAM...

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AND THIS IS THE ZONE OF WHAT
I WOULD CALL THE WISDOM BODY.

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WHEN YOU GO TO SLEEP,
IT'S THE BODY THAT'S TALKING...

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AND WHAT THE BODY IS MOVED BY,

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ENERGIES THAT
IT DOES NOT CONTROL.

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THESE ARE THE ENERGIES
THAT CONTROL THE BODY.

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THEY COME IN FROM...
THE GREAT BIOLOGICAL GROUND,

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WHATEVER IT MAY BE.

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PROTOPLASM. THEY'RE THERE.

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THEY'RE ENERGIES AND THEY ARE
MANNERS OF CONSCIOUSNESS.

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BUT WE ALSO HAVE IN THIS BODY

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THIS AFFAIR UP HERE,
OF THE HEAD,

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AND IT HAS A SYSTEM OF THINKING
OF ITS OWN.

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AND THERE'S A WHOLE
MANNER OF CONSCIOUSNESS

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THAT STEMS FROM THE HEAD SET...

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AND IT IS DIFFERENT
IN ITS KNOWLEDGE

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FROM THAT OF THE BODY.

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WHEN THE BABY IS BORN,
IT KNOWS JUST WHAT TO DO

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WITH ITS MOTHER'S BODY.

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IT IS READY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT
INTO WHICH IT'S PUT.

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IT DOESN'T
HAVE TO BE INSTRUCTED.

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THESE THINGS HAPPEN.

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AND THIS IS THE WORK
OF THE WISDOM BODY.

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ALSO, THAT SAME WISDOM
BROUGHT THE LITTLE THING

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INTO FORM IN ITS MOTHER'S BODY.

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IT WAS SHAPED BY THESE ENERGIES
THAT LIVE IN US

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AND OF WHICH WE ARE
THE CARNAL MANIFESTATION.

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THIS WISDOM OF THE DREAM,
WISDOM OF THE VISION,
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IS THE WISDOM, THEN,
OF THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY.

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WHEN YOU DREAM,
YOUR WAKING CONSCIOUSNESS ASPECT

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DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE DREAM,

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SO YOU HAVE TO GO
TO A PSYCHOANALYST

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WHO DOESN'T
UNDERSTAND IT, EITHER.

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[AUDIENCE LAUGHS]

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[CLEARS THROAT]
THE INTERPRETATION IS GRADUAL

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AND IT COMES FROM AN EXPLORATION
BY THE HEAD

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OF YOUR OWN WISDOM.

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AND SO WE FIND THAT THERE IS
A KIND OF RADICAL DISTINCTION

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BETWEEN THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY
AND ITS MODE AND ITS AXIOMS.

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QUITE DIFFERENT FROM THE AXIOMS
AND MODE OF THE RATIONAL SYSTEM.

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AND IT'S OUT OF THAT OTHER THAT
I WANT TO TRY TO TALK TODAY.

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NOW, AS I SAY,

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THE INTERPRETATION
OF THE MYTHIC FORMS

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WENT FORWARD IN GREAT STYLE,

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PRINCIPALLY IN INDIA,
VERY EARLY,

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AND SO IT'S THROUGH
REVIEWING THE MYTHOLOGIES

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AND THE INTERPRETATIONS
OF THE MYTHS,

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IN INDIA AND THEN
IN CHINA AND JAPAN...

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THAT I PROPOSE TO INTRODUCE US
TO WHAT I TAKE TO BE
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THE GROUND THINKING
OF THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY.

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AND SO WHILE I WANT
TO GIVE A SENSE

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OF THE RICHNESS AND WONDER
OF THE ETHNIC ASPECT

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OF THE ORIENTAL SYSTEM,

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MY PRINCIPAL INTEREST TODAY

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IS IN EXTRACTING
FROM THEM THE ELEMENTAL,

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NOT ACCENTING THE ETHNIC
BUT EXTRACTING THE ELEMENTAL.

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SO THAT'S WHAT I'M GOING TO TRY
TO BRING FORWARD.

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HERE WE ARE ON THE GANGES...

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AND ON THE SHORE THERE
IS BENARES.

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THE IDEA OF THE SACRED RIVER--
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THE JORDAN, THE WATERS
THAT FALL FROM HEAVEN--

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IT THEN BECOMES
TRANSLATED INTO THE IDEA

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OF THE GRACE, OF THE DIVINE,

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FLOWING INEXHAUSTIBLY
OUT OF SOME SOURCE.

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AND IN INDIA, AT THE VERY
SOURCE OF THE GANGES,

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UP IN THE HIMALAYAN AREA,

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IT'S A VERY SACRED PLACE,
AND IF ONE GOES THERE,

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THERE ARE YOGIS ALL AROUND
PRACTICING YOGA,

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GETTING CLOSE
TO THE SOURCE, LITERALLY.

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ONE OF THE PROBLEMS
WITH SYMBOLS,

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AND IT'S THE MAIN PROBLEM
WITH SYMBOLS,

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IS THAT PEOPLE TEND
TO GET LOST IN THE SYMBOL,

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SO THEY THINK THEY HAVE TO GO UP
TO THE HEAD OF THE GANGES

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IN ORDER TO GET TO THE SOURCE.

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THE PROBLEM IN MYTH,
THE PROBLEM IN MYSTICISM, IS

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THAT YOU SHOULD NOT LOSE
THE MESSAGE IN THE SYMBOL.

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THE MESSAGE ALWAYS
IS OF THE SPIRIT.

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AND WHEN THE SYMBOL
IS TAKEN TO BE THE FACT,

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SO THAT YOU HAVE